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What do electrical engineers know that many audiophiles do not?

there are aspects of sound heard in Hifi that can’t be measured

Which aspects are these, please?
There are certainly some important matters that can be measured and published but typically aren't.

The quoted article is a bit mixed in its quality but is right with its "live music is louder than most audiophiles think".

To assemble a system with enough dynamic range so it does not sound congested on music having a substantial "crest factor" you need to know at what SPL a loudspeaker starts to compress and by how much. Then you can select candidate loudspeakers to audition and amplifiers with enough power to drive them. This information is rarely revealed by loudspeaker manufacturers and rarely measured adequately as part of reviews.
 
Well that’s true but it will vary according to the music played and how compressed that music is - so it’s a bit of a ‘moveable feast’ wgich is why I guess it is rarely tackled.

To be honest, many ‘audiophiles’ know next to nothing regarding the actual workings of their audio equipment and many even see this as an actual benefit. Having said that, I’ve had a lot of experience with engineers and many have had, what I would call, an entire imagination bypass.
 
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The quoted article is a bit mixed in its quality but is right with its "live music is louder than most audiophiles think".

Who the hell wants ‘live music’ volume?! Almost all rock gigs will give you permanent hearing damage if you don’t wear good ear-plugs and even classical can be far too loud. I went to see Stravinsky’s Rite Of Spring a few months ago, I snagged what I thought was the ‘audiophile hot-seat’ of front-row centre and to be honest I was thinking about putting my earplugs in! Painfully loud in parts. My system can easily do a string quartet from a few rows back and I’d not want anything louder than that.

PS I have the dynamic headroom too with a pair of proper Lockwood studio monitors the size of wardrobes and a pair of Klipsch LaScalas that could give you permanent hearing damage with half a Watt! I listen to neither any louder than I do to my little JR149s upstairs.
 
Even an unamplified concert grand piano can require several hundred Watts per channel to reproduce without any peak clipping on loud passages in a reasonably large room such as could comfortably house said piano and with average efficiency speakers...
Efficient speakers are your friend if you want really loud;) Unfortunately efficient speakers tend to be quite coloured and the more efficient they are the more coloured...
A combination of direct radiating and horn drivers with active operation is probably the best compromise when really loud with reasonably low colouration is required... strangely enough, exactly what is mainly used in professional PA systems for live gigs...
 
I went to see Stravinsky’s Rite Of Spring a few months ago, I snagged what I thought was the ‘audiophile hot-seat’ of front-row centre and to be honest I was thinking about putting my earplugs in! Painfully loud in parts.

Ever noticed how the folks in the front couple of rows at classical concerts tend to be quite elderly?

Personally I'd never go further forward that about row G, whatever the material.
 
I’m so used to seeing small scale pieces in that venue (RNCM) that I just instinctively go front centre. Next big orchestral thing I’ll aim to be a bit further back.
 
A mate and me once climbed over the rope barrier at a Harrogate show to get to the front row of the demo of Tannoy Westminster Royals driven by bridged Crown DC300A's. Source-"Sheffield drum record". A Tannoy guy came over and said "I wouldn't sit there if I was you..." Luckily it was about 15 mins before setting off home so the severe resulting tinnitus didn't really spoil the show:D It was in a theatre/ballroom as well so huge room!
 
... I snagged what I thought was the ‘audiophile hot-seat’ of front-row centre and to be honest I was thinking about putting my earplugs in!

Aren't those fairly cheap seats?
If I recall correctly, Peter Walker was aiming to reproduce 'Front Row Dress Circle'. The seats cost more, and you'd need a dinner jacket and bowtie.
 
Ever noticed how the folks in the front couple of rows at classical concerts tend to be quite elderly?

Personally I'd never go further forward that about row G, whatever the material.
Yes- I’d say the hot seats were maybe h to m.
 
Even an unamplified concert grand piano can require several hundred Watts per channel to reproduce without any peak clipping on loud passages in a reasonably large room such as could comfortably house said piano and with average efficiency speakers...
Efficient speakers are your friend if you want really loud;) Unfortunately efficient speakers tend to be quite coloured and the more efficient they are the more coloured...
A combination of direct radiating and horn drivers with active operation is probably the best compromise when really loud with reasonably low colouration is required... strangely enough, exactly what is mainly used in professional PA systems for live gigs...
My most efficient speakers (at c102db/2.83v @ 1m) are 4 way full sized corner horns. They are not perfect speakers. My least efficient speakers are small 2 ways (c 85 dbs) with an isobaric mid-bass driver arrangement. They are certainly not perfect speakers.

However of the 2 speakers, it's the inefficient ones that sound far more coloured, sounding like they have a St Pauls Cathedral shaped frequency response.

Please explain.
 
My most efficient speakers (at c102db/2.83v @ 1m) are 4 way full sized corner horns. They are not perfect speakers. My least efficient speakers are small 2 ways (c 85 dbs) with an isobaric mid-bass driver arrangement. They are certainly not perfect speakers.

However of the 2 speakers, it's the inefficient ones that sound far more coloured, sounding like they have a St Pauls Cathedral shaped frequency response.

Please explain.

Easy. You're inefficient speakers are linn saras and I claim my prize!
 
Pretty sure there are a fair few electronic engineers who wouldn’t know a crash cymbal from a ride, an alto sax from a tenor, an E from a B, let alone know by listening to it where the mics were placed or what type they likely were! Some would argue a lack of such source material knowledge was irrelevant too! Those whose opinions I trust tend to have pretty broad knowledge that spans both the technical and subjective. Folk who live entirely in one or other camp are of limited use to the advancement of audio IMHO.
Sums matters up nicely

Next.....

There are some very knowledgeable engineers on here who, rather than shout, i'm the best in the world at everything kmow everything & can make everything better than anyone else,, come over as a bit more believable than some I could mention.

Pfm is no place for Walter Mitty.

The good 'uns are the members who explain their knowledge in a coherent manner, without resorting to silly bouts of boasting.
 
Electrical engineers are often 'shocked' to learn that some audiophools spend all their spare time tinkering with their 'winkies'.
 
I would imagine most Electrical engineers know very little about hifi, electronics engineers most probably know far more then the average audiophile without a degree in electronics.

Having both is the ideal. Many here are in this category as far as I can see.
 
As someone with good hearing I fully appreciate the qualities of the LS3/5A and also feel the pain from the weird unmusical screeching noise that comes from Kan's:D Isobariks are nearly as bad!

If you think Kan's sound realistic I suggest you enlist the help of an audiologist. Personally I'd take any speaker carrying the brand name "Realistic" over Kan's in fact.
lets hear it for Tandy speakers.... 1970s style

I learnt to avoid fellow students rooms if they had 'Realistic' speakers.

shudders
 
I think the problem some engineers fail to get to grips with is, not everyone looks at the world of hifi as a circuit board ,we all enjoy different sounds, our rooms, music tastes, accompanying equipment all make a mark on what we hear, this is where the engineer falls down in their assessment sometimes.

Some enjoy the squawk of a kan because it fits in with their personal tastes, rooms & system, nothing wrong with this.

I owned a pair of Kans for a short while, they sounded anything but squawky in my situation, I let them go for a lack of bottom end, they needed to be pushed up against a wall which just doesn't work in my situation, the mids were exceptionally clear, clean & expressive.

The Royd Eden I currently use measure quite poorly in pure hifi terms but sounds wonderful for my personal needs.

I would be interested to ask Tony how the jr149 measure on the hifi scale, are they technically perfect for example.
 
I would be interested to ask Tony how the jr149 measure on the hifi scale, are they technically perfect for example.

I’m not quite sure I understand your question. No speaker is technically perfect or anything even remotely aproaching that. The perfect speaker would be a single driver omni-directional point source of 100% efficiency, zero mass with a perfectly flat response well beyond 20Hz to 20kHz with no need for box (or worse port) reinforcement. It simply does not exist.

The JR149s are a very nice little mini-monitor, ground-breaking in their day and still very respectable today for their size. They measure well for a little sealed-box stand-mount, but no, they are very far from technical perfection. As is every other speaker on the planet!
 
I’m not quite sure I understand your question. No speaker is technically perfect or anything even remotely aproaching that. The perfect speaker would be a single driver omni-directional point source of 100% efficiency, zero mass with a perfectly flat response well beyond 20Hz to 20kHz with no need for box (or worse port) reinforcement. It simply does not exist.

The JR149s are a very nice little mini-monitor, ground-breaking in their day and still very respectable today for their size. They measure well for a little sealed-box stand-mount, but no, they are very far from technical perfection. As is every other speaker on the planet!
I ask because when I owned a pair recently, an engineer friend of mine was invited round for a listen, I wondered what he would make of this speaker, he said & I quote, "this is easily the best speaker I have ever listened to"

These were, at the time, linked to a Naim Nait 3 amp streamed from my laptop through a music streamer 2 dac, sitting atop a pair very lightweight Soundstyle metal stands in a 3.5m sq room around 35cm from a back wall.

We like what we like at the end of the day .i prefer my Royds, which measure all over the shop technically, the jr had it in the mids, exceptional, never heard a speaker lock down a midrange like these, but the bass was all wrong in my room, pity.

Point being, many engineers go on the technical side first, Audiophiles listen, the rest is mainly down to needs, power, sensitivity etc..rather than a real need to understand, I know you enjoy this side of it, as do others but doubt you would dismiss a product on specs alone or render it useless based on measurements, if audiophiles did, Naim would never have left the blocks.
If an engineer is asked to sit down & listen without getting bogged down with measurements, it's interesting to see their reaction, if I had requested he measure them first, I imagine his reaction may have been a little different as his expectation bias would have changed.
 
@ TonyL The audiophile hotseat is not necessarily where one might imagine, and changes from hall to hall.
In the Konzerthaus in Berlin the best seats are the first gallery, side seating, first row! In the Philharmonie they're probably in Block B about half way back, but centre. I found the back row of the Stalls in the Barbican to be best years ago. It's about finding the place where the instrumental sound starts to mix nicely, but not so much that definition is lost. Up close is never a good idea (unless it's a piano concerto and one wants to hear the piano throughout, in which case I do sit in the front row).
 


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