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Let the Brexit begin

jont said:
JC and most of the Labour Party have just voted not to stay in the single market or the customs union, despite a motion to the contrary put forward by the Labour MP Chuka umunna. (The vote was Ayes:101. Noes:322 Majority:221)

That should pretty much shines a spotlight where JC was on Brexit.
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Yep. He whipped his MPs to abstain. He's supporting the Tories on Brexit.
 
jackbarron said:
Labour's policy on Brexit is very realistic. The country voted to opt out of the EU. The Party are following the wishes of the Leave voters, but in their own manner.

Corbyn and Labour want the final document to be voted on in Parliament. This will give MPs a chance to kick Brexit into the long grass. This is what Theresa 'SS' May is most scared of, hence her tedious no deal is better than a bad deal mantra.

Should this happen, Brexit could eventually be cancelled. The Referendum was advisory and not legally binding. Plus some Europeans are now saying Brexit doesn't have to happen, even though Article 50 has been invoked.

Corbyn and many in Labour are playing a smart long game over Brexit. No doubt the PLP backstabbers will start moaning about Labour not having a Brexit strategy. They'll probably team up with the Remain Tories ... just like the have on pfm funnily enough.

Jack
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Unless of course you believe this.
Rather looks like they have a strategy, teaming up with the Leave tories...
 
jackbarron said:
Corbyn and Labour want the final document to be voted on in Parliament. This will give MPs a chance to kick Brexit into the long grass. This is what Theresa 'SS' May is most scared of, hence her tedious no deal is better than a bad deal mantra.
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jont said:
Unless of course you believe this.
Rather looks like they have a strategy, teaming up with the Leave tories...
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Jack's post roughly paraphrases what I was told by my Labour candidate, who said they would vote down any final deal involving restricted market access. 'No deal' also.
 
51 Labour MPs defied the whip and voted against the amendment by Chuka Amuuna, 3 Front Benches sacked by JC for doing what he himself was well known for.
 
Vinniemac said:
Yep. He whipped his MPs to abstain. He's supporting the Tories on Brexit.
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See, this is what's so infuriating about Jeremy Corbyn. He is the best we have in party leaders at present but then he goes and does something monumentally stupid like this. It's maddening! :mad:
 
jont said:
51 Labour MPs defied the whip and voted against the amendment by Chuka Amuuna, 3 Front Benches sacked by JC for doing what he himself was well known for.
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Absolutely standard, at all times, & in all parties. Front bench have collective responsibility, therefore can't stay on front bench if they chose to defy the whip.
 
mhv said:
Absolutely standard, at all times, & in all parties. Front bench have collective responsibility, therefore can't stay on front bench if they chose to defy the whip.
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Agreed. But why did he think he had to whip this vote? All the evidence points to him supporting Brexit.
 
Vinniemac said:
Agreed. But why did he think he had to whip this vote? All the evidence points to him supporting Brexit.
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That's right, so this is starting to look like a purge as he's in a position of strength with the Labour electorate and his support base within the party at the moment,
It seems he's looking to strengthen his hand within the PLP
 
Don't all good Marxists love a purge? ;)

Oh well, Corbyn is at his best with a megaphone and a crowd and a message about inequality. Political strategy and support of the EU have never been strongpoints for him.

It's fairly small Labour rebellion and I suspect will fade quickly while the real Brexit action is happening on the benches opposite. So I don't see it doing lasting damage to Labour.

But Corbyn remains pretty murky on Brexit.
 
mhv said:
Originally Posted by mhv View Post
Agreed, but why did Chuka insist on putting amendment at this time. That, to me, is the biggest mistake. Let the Tories own Brexit, **** up & then see where the pieces lie. It's a long game this Brexit lark...
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Vinniemac said:
Because staying in the Single Market is the only way to safeguard jobs and the economy. And it's perfectly consistent with the referendum result.
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and because most who voted, and a mighty proportion of those of us who voted remain (- which frankly is the other 50% who voted within only a couple of percent error) - expressly do not want, need nor require to see anyone actually '****-up' this transition.

The very opposite: it would be the worst of all possible worlds for everyone involved, Britons (whomsoever they count themselves in this regard) and the rest of the EU. This is a far, far bigger issue than the UK Party politics of the incompetent - which is what we seem to be lumbered with. And this is what upsets me, more than the vote result itself.
 
There is a principle of English law which states that no Parliament shall be bound by the actions of a previous Parliament (I paraphrase, I'm not sure of the exact wording). Essentially it means that any law passed by a Parliament can be repealed by any subsequent parliament.

The Referendum was, as we know, non-binding in any event, but the fact that we are now in a Parliament different to the one in place at the Referendum does indicate that there is nothing to oblige this Parliament to act on the outcome, nor indeed to proceed with Article 50, which Act it could undo whenever it wished.

Not sure how, or if, this plays out in the present situation, but it is a factor which might feature at some point, I suspect.
 
Labour supporting leaving the Single Market seems like they are wanting a hard Brexit, this will screw a lot of their supporters financially.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
The Referendum was, as we know, non-binding in any event, but the fact that we are now in a Parliament different to the one in place at the Referendum does indicate that there is nothing to oblige this Parliament to act on the outcome, nor indeed to proceed with Article 50, which Act it could undo whenever it wished.
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Except that both main parties stood on a platform of leaving the EU.

So they are in fact more obliged than they were before.

Paul
 
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