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Donald Trump - non American missing the point

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MVV said:
There is something really unpleasant about the way we are talking about 'muslims' as if they are one homogenous group. It is deeply stupid and a slippery slope. The only thing you can be certain of about people who call themselves muslims is that 99% of them are good people who live by a moral code that aligns closely with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

As someone with no faith I admire and respect that.

As the muslim guy in the tube station said to the guy with the knife "You ain't no muslim bro!" and he was right, he wasn't.
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Indeed.

Stephen
 
stephen bennett said:
How so?
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By magic wand.

I have no plan. I just wish the world was less crowded and stressed in general, solved over night by magic. Look at the chaos in Beijing and Delhi right now - too many people, too much chaos and crazy pollution. That is likely our future too. There is no solution aside from families being more sensible and putting the Earth before their desires to spawn 2.4 children. Or six.
 
QUBIQ said:
By magic wand.

I have no plan. I just wish the world was less crowded and stressed in general, solved over night by magic. Look at the chaos in Beijing and Delhi right now - too many people, too much chaos and crazy pollution. That is likely our future too. There is no solution aside from families being more sensible and putting the Earth before their desires to spawn 2.4 children. Or six.
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we're already at "peak child". Things will work their way out over the next 70 years, assuming we manage resources carefully.
 
Greg said:
Which of Hopkins' points do you consider to be valid?

This idea that Muslims should come out and declare "not in our name", I don't think the average Muslim sees any connection between themselves and the actions of murderous Islamists.
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Only the point I already made - I wish Islamic leaders were more vocal with their PR. Their leaders should forcefully distance themselves from this nonsense more than they do. Everywhere, in all media, very loudly. Only good would come of it.

Perhaps the average Muslim would never see a connection. However a lot of people sadly do. You only have to look at Trumps popularity to confirm that - playing on prejudice and fear. Those two elements need to be tackled by better PR which may lead to more thinking and tolerance for some. Their leader should be aware of this and act accordingly - Lead.
 
Tony L said:
There is nothing more cowardly than facists like Trump closing borders, banning entry to certain minorities, scapegoating whole religions etc. The extreme political right has always been rammed full of terrified losers who behave as pack animals at the slightest issue and will happily sacrifice freedom, liberty and decency for a narrow and entirely false sense of personal security. Trump is very cynically exploiting this fear and cowardice to his own end. Anyone who supports him is a chicken-shit loser IMHO. People with any integrity, decency and sense of history would grasp that the freedoms outlined in the US constitution along with the racial and religious diversity upon which the country was built are well worth standing up for. All thinking American people need to unify against racist fascist anti-constitutional bullshit like Trump. The nation is worth so much more than that.
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Strength Through Fear

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Trump just sees an angle - exploit a situation to get into power. If it was not this, I suspect it would be something else.

As much as Trump is an ass, I suspect it is all very calculated. He has looked at the population and held up a mirror to them.
 
MVV said:
There is something really unpleasant about the way we are talking about 'muslims' as if they are one homogenous group. It is deeply stupid and a slippery slope. The only thing you can be certain of about people who call themselves muslims is that 99% of them are good people who live by a moral code that aligns closely with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

As someone with no faith I admire and respect that.

As the muslim guy in the tube station said to the guy with the knife "You ain't no muslim bro!" and he was right, he wasn't.
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+ 1
 
So Muslim leaders should be speaking out very loudly against Islamist terrorism. I think we all agree.

What do we think that the Muslims of this world think that we should be doing to help put a stop to Islamic terrorism?
 
QUBIQ said:
Regardless of faith, the mess we are in now, etc. I do feel as an island we are getting rather cramped. The roads, hospitals, everything is bursting with stress. I would be happy if our population went down.

I did sign the Trump petition though as I don't like the guy. He goes to far and is a clown.

But, Katie does have some valid points. I would like to see the Muslim community really come out and rip the shit out of ISIS. They really need to work on their PR. I'd like to see a mass march of Muslims holding placards saying "Not in our name" or similar. I'd like to see much more mass condemnation everywhere - on our streets, in the media, online. Their leaders seem too quiet.
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There was a march of Muslims holding placards saying Not in My Name.
In London.
Last Sunday.
The came out in their thousands.

The media largely ignored it.
 
Well there you go. I vaguely picked up on the "not in my name" somewhere, a while ago. I must have missed the marches though.
 
QUBIQ said:
I wish Islamic leaders were more vocal with their PR. Their leaders should forcefully distance themselves from this nonsense more than they do.
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Sunni Muslims don't have leadership structures equivalent to the Church. Where I am the head of the religion is the Sultan of the state and he is the only person really allowed to make statements connected to religion.
 
maxflinn said:
So Muslim leaders should be speaking out very loudly against Islamist terrorism. I think we all agree.

What do we think that the Muslims of this world think that we should be doing to help put a stop to Islamic terrorism?
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I guess it comes down to populations wanting their leaders to reflect their wishes and act accordingly - to represent us.

However this is not what happens here in the UK. I don't know many people who wanted us going all around the world on bombing raids, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, or anywhere else. Yet our leaders take it upon themselves to do what they like. Although I think everyones feelings are clear online. The war machine rolls on with a larger agenda: securing future resources and extending power and wealth. In all honesty I think all else is a by product of this greed.

But what can we do? Vote for someone who is not a war mongering twat might be a start.
 
QUBIQ said:
Only the point I already made - I wish Islamic leaders were more vocal with their PR. Their leaders should forcefully distance themselves from this nonsense more than they do. Everywhere, in all media, very loudly. Only good would come of it.

Perhaps the average Muslim would never see a connection. However a lot of people sadly do. You only have to look at Trumps popularity to confirm that - playing on prejudice and fear. Those two elements need to be tackled by better PR which may lead to more thinking and tolerance for some. Their leader should be aware of this and act accordingly - Lead.
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but are you aware that unlike, say, the Catholic church, Islam doesn't (typically) have a hierarchical structure. It i a religion which (typically ) puts academic dialogue (in respect of the Quran and the Hadith) at its core?

Beyond individual Imams, any notion of "Muslim leaders" is very much an artifice; the scope and influence of the Muslim Council of Great Britain is both questionable and limited.
 
Greg said:
but are you aware that unlike, say, the Catholic church, Islam doesn't (typically) have a hierarchical structure. It i a religion which (typically ) puts academic dialogue (in respect of the Quran and the Hadith) at its core?

Beyond individual Imams, any notion of "Muslim leaders" is very much an artifice; the scope and influence of the Muslim Council of Great Britain is both questionable and limited.
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Well Shia Islam very much has a clergy, but of course ISIS would rather kill them as heretics than listen to them.
The closest Sunni Islam has are institutions such as Al Azhar and there is some truth that it has not been unequivocally against ISIS in all its pronouncements. Perhaps because ISIS has positioned itself as defending Sunni Muslims in Iraq and Syria.
So its complicated.
 
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