advertisement


Labour leadership election (part II)

Status
Not open for further replies.
The pfm demographic is clearly not representative of UK voters on the whole. This poll suggests very far left of centre. Guven the age demographic too it would seem to be a 70s-style Britain that folks here want to see.

This is how it will play out:

Corbyn becomes Labour leader. The Labour Party then splits with about 50 MPs including all the other front-runners and former shadow cabinet leaving to form an electable centre-left party to give Britain the kind of opposition it needs to keep the current government on its toes and not lurch further to the right. The rump Labour Party then disappears up its own backside for a few years before gradually returning to the centre ground.

I note that the Far Left tend to blame the 'traitors' who split the Party to form the SDP amd not Michael Foot for causing them to do so and for Labour losing the 1983 amd 1987 General Elections.
 
maxflinn said:
The difference between Corbyn and the other three is he's an honest, genuine person who holds unshakeable beliefs, and they're dishonest, disingenuous career politicians who hold whatever beliefs they think will get them up the ladder at any given time.

Basically a principled man of class and conviction vs three rats!

The public are sick of rats.
Click to expand...

There is truth to this and for this reason I admired Tony Benn. I'd never have voted for him though.
 
gassor said:
All you said is that you want more people to vote and even if they vote Tory that can regarded as success. So Labour can get annihalated at the next election with Corbyn at the helm, but it is still a success if more that 23% vote for the winning party.



If the Tories get in again it is a disaster for a lot of people, and in no way can any Labour voter say anything else.
Click to expand...
I think what I said doesn't need further clarification.
 
Steven Toy said:
The pfm demographic is clearly not representative of UK voters on the whole. This poll suggests very far left of centre. Guven the age demographic too it would seem to be a 70s-style Britain that folks here want to see.

This is how it will play out:

Corbyn becomes Labour leader. The Labour Party then splits with about 50 MPs including all the other front-runners and former shadow cabinet leaving to form an electable centre-left party to give Britain the kind of opposition it needs to keep the current government on its toes and not lurch further to the right. The rump Labour Party then disappears up its own backside for a few years before gradually returning to the centre ground.

I note that the Far Left tend to blame the 'traitors' who split the Party and forming the SDP amd not Muchael Foot for causing them to do so for Labour losing the 1983 amd 1987 General Elections.
Click to expand...

The poll suggests nothing of the kind, your assumptions of what people want are novel but only your opinion.
 
Steven Toy said:
The pfm demographic is clearly not representative of UK voters on the whole. This poll suggests very far left of centre. Guven the age demographic too it would seem to be a 70s-style Britain that folks here want to see.

This is how it will play out:

Corbyn becomes Labour leader. The Labour Party then splits with about 50 MPs including all the other front-runners and former shadow cabinet leaving to form an electable centre-left party to give Britain the kind of opposition it needs to keep the current government on its toes and not lurch further to the right. The rump Labour Party then disappears up its own backside for a few years before gradually returning to the centre ground.

I note that the Far Left tend to blame the 'traitors' who split the Party and forming the SDP amd not Muchael Foot for causing them to do so for Labour losing the 1983 amd 1987 General Elections.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't.

Your take on 'far left' and 'centre-left' is skewed.
 
Steven Toy said:
The pfm demographic is clearly not representative of UK voters on the whole. This poll suggests very far left of centre. Guven the age demographic too it would seem to be a 70s-style Britain that folks here want to see.
Click to expand...

It's actually rather interesting as I wasn't expecting to see such a landslide Corbyn vote in what is after all predominantly an AB1 demographic. Sure, we may all be 'champagne socialists' to some degree and therefore atypical, but even so the result surprises me. I guess it is not a tabloid-reading demographic, and I suspect that's where elections are won or lost. That is certainly where Corbyn will find his toughest battles as Murdoch, Dacre etc will spare no expense in sabotage and personal attack as they fear nothing more.

PS As Brian says Corbyn is anything but far left! He's a moderate/centrist when viewed through the eyes of 20th century UK political history, but don't let facts get in the way of a good smear!
 
Brian said:
No, it doesn't.

Your take on 'far left' and 'centre-left' is skewed.
Click to expand...

Ok,

Far Left Policies:

Unilateral nuclear disarmament (80s-style CND). Abandoning MAD for loftier moral goals.

Open-door immigration policy bringing the UK population to over 100 million in less than a generation.

Soaking the rich and when that fails to swell the treasury coffers, soak everyone else and borrow with impunity.

What drives this increase-the-dose approach to the wrong medicine is the sense that morally it is the right thing to do and cannot therefore fail.
 
I'm intrigued that Steve seems to consider referring to conservative (i.e. centre right) voters as Tories is somehow an insult on a par with describing another as being mentally ill.

This says a lot about how the term "Tory" is perceived IMHO - even by some Conservative party supporters.
 
Ex leaders (one unvoted) spectacularly losing two elections advising other people how to vote... Can someone explain me that?
 
Tony L said:
It's actually rather interesting as I wasn't expecting to see such a landslide Corbyn vote in what is after all predominantly an AB1 demographic. Sure, we may all be 'champagne socialists' to some degree and therefore atypical, but even so the result surprises me. I guess it is not a tabloid-reading demographic, and I suspect that's where elections are won or lost. That is certainly where Corbyn will find his toughest battles as Murdoch, Dacre etc will spare no expense in sabotage and personal attack as they fear nothing more.

PS As Brian says Corbyn is anything but far left! He's a moderate/centrist when viewed through the eyes of 20th century UK political history, but don't let facts get in the way of a good smear!
Click to expand...

This is the 21st Century not the 1970s in which the pfm demographic seems to reside.

My concern is that without a credible centre-left opposition (in 21st Century terms) the Conservative government will lurch further to the right unchecked. If you want unfettered neo-liberalism (I don't) join the Labour Party and vote for Corbyn. The hard-core Tories want him to win for obvious reasons.
 
While the UK is part of the EU no party will be able to control immigration. The only way to make a significant reduction in immigration is to leave the EU, because the EU is where the vast majority of immigrants come from.

But that didn't stop the tories from implementing policies that cost me £2000 to get a visa for my American wife of 15 years to live with me in the UK (in fact they cost me more than that because I had to put £65000 in a current account for 6 months to meet the financial requirements so that we wouldn't have to live apart for three months).
Of course, if I were French or German my American wife could have joined me for under £100.

Immigration = EU - it's a simple as that. Erecting unreasonable controls to immigration for non EU nationals is window dressing to split the UKIP vote.
 
merlin said:
I'm intrigued that Steve seems to consider referring to conservative (i.e. centre right) voters as Tories is somehow an insult on a par with describing another as being mentally ill.

This says a lot about how the term "Tory" is perceived IMHO - even by some Conservative party supporters.
Click to expand...

You choose to read in what suits you. "Tory" as an insult from a leftie is no different to a Scot referring to a fellow as "English" because they don't consider them Scottish enough. It's terminology used to deflect from an issue.
 
PS 'mentally ill' people often strike me as the folk that make most sense in matters of the political idiocracy. I've read a few supposed sane posters' ideas on social engineering and money based utopias and... frankly... They need bricking up behind a wall
 
Steven Toy said:
This is the 21st Century not the 1970s in which the pfm demographic seems to reside.
Click to expand...

Or the 1980s in which you seem to reside.

Steven Toy said:
My concern is that without a credible centre-left opposition (in 21st Century terms) the Conservative government will lurch further to the right unchecked. If you want unfettered neo-liberalism (I don't) join the Labour Party and vote for Corbyn. The hard-core Tories want him to win for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

I dunno; the Tories will have their own leadership bun-fight in a few years' time; who knows what shape they'll be in come 2020?
 
merlin said:
I'm intrigued that Steve seems to consider referring to conservative (i.e. centre right) voters as Tories is somehow an insult on a par with describing another as being mentally ill.

This says a lot about how the term "Tory" is perceived IMHO - even by some Conservative party supporters.
Click to expand...

This is an eye-opener. I thought 'tory' was just another word for 'conservative' and I use it as such to reduce on typing. Never realised it was an insult.
 
sean99 said:
While the UK is part of the EU no party will be able to control immigration. The only way to make a significant reduction in immigration is to leave the EU, because the EU is where the vast majority of immigrants come from.

But that didn't stop the tories from implementing policies that cost me £2000 to get a visa for my American wife of 15 years to live with me in the UK (in fact they cost me more than that because I had to put £65000 in a current account for 6 months to meet the financial requirements so that we wouldn't have to live apart for three months).
Of course, if I were French or German my American wife could have joined me for under £100.

Immigration = EU - it's a simple as that. Erecting unreasonable controls to immigration for non EU nationals is window dressing to split the UKIP vote.
Click to expand...
Wonder what the bankers did with that for 6 months?

A strange requirement....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top