positive_energy
pfm Member
Yep. Mine too. It doesn't get any better.
Old vinyl vs today's technology
- Thread starter hughmc2
- Start date
Yep. Mine too. It doesn't get any better.
too late...
I bought The Cure's Disintigration on 180g vinyl thinking it would add something to the very good CD.
What a crock of s%#t !
Apart from the fact that it sounds sooooo bad it looks as if the vinyl was an old milk crate in a previous life ( yes I know milk crates aren't vinyl but I couldn't think of anything vinyl that might be recycleable )
I bought The Cure's Disintigration on 180g vinyl thinking it would add something to the very good CD.
What a crock of s%#t !
Apart from the fact that it sounds sooooo bad it looks as if the vinyl was an old milk crate in a previous life ( yes I know milk crates aren't vinyl but I couldn't think of anything vinyl that might be recycleable )
pickwickpapers
pfm Member
I have no real preference between vinyl or cd. My Cd's are clean & convenient and my vinyl is music full of memories.
At the weekend I bought an LP from a charity shop ~ Frank Sinatra & the Count Basie Orchestra ( on Valiant label VS144 ). The missus loves the big band sound. Cost me £1
What came out of the speakers when I got it home just blew me away
Not the performance. The production !!! What did they know in 1963 that modern producers have forgotten ?
The drummer was almost "visible", the piano was, I kid you not, about 5 feet to the left of the left speaker. Nothing I have heard has ever portrayed a soundstage that wide. Sinatra was just right of centre and you could follow him as he moved across to the piano on one track. He was standing next to my turntable ! Everything was in it's own space.
I have over 300 CD's. Lots of different genres. Diana Krall, Melody Gardot, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins, Anna Netrebko, Sparks, Yael Naim etc.
None of them can hold a candle to the production and imagery on a 50 year old bit of vinyl. What happened ?
probably 'simply' miked (i.e. not many) by peeps who really knew what they were doing in that context? And it's an 'acoustic' recording I assume - live, no overdubs / multitracking etc? Possibly direct to 2-track (if stereo...)?
the best 'simple' jazz recordings from the 50s and (first half of?) the 60s really do sound as good as it gets.
pickwickpapers
pfm Member
too late...
I bought The Cure's Disintigration on 180g vinyl thinking it would add something to the very good CD.
What a crock of s%#t !
Apart from the fact that it sounds sooooo bad it looks as if the vinyl was an old milk crate in a previous life ( yes I know milk crates aren't vinyl but I couldn't think of anything vinyl that might be recycleable )
aye, the majority of new pressings / re-issues etc I've bought on vinyl have been poor - think I've read they're mostly done in one of 5 or so remaining (worldwide) pressing plants these days, and there are obviously enormous QC problems.
too late...
I bought The Cure's Disintigration on 180g vinyl thinking it would add something to the very good CD.
What a crock of s%#t !
Apart from the fact that it sounds sooooo bad it looks as if the vinyl was an old milk crate in a previous life ( yes I know milk crates aren't vinyl but I couldn't think of anything vinyl that might be recycleable )
Try and get hold of an original copy of Three Imaginary Boys as the sound quality on the original issue is excellent.
johnfromnorwich
even my wife noticed the dif..
Unless Disintegration was a double, it didn't stand a chance. It's really just too long for a single LP! I've got original pressings of everything from 3IB > Disintegration and TBH the latter on vinyl has 'afterthought' written all over it. In this case the CD is likely to be a much better bet. OTOH, the first 5 sound utterly great on vinyl and great on CD too. As usual, stevehoffman.tv has a massive thread on these remasters...
Cable Monkey
A chip on both shoulders...
I do think we lack the expertise we had 50-60 years ago when stereo was still very new and experiemental but our problem today is that music is produced to be played on personal MP3 players via ear buds and plenty of the stuff we decry played on our expensive large scale systems sound better mixed loud and forward on an MP3 player. This is simply a function of economics. Downloads are or will be the main revenue source so production is geared in that direction. Vinyl might get its own mix and master but CD will be as the digital download version because the expectation is that this will be ripped and listened to on personal players, or in cars and portable players.
I don't think we can get everything changed, we represent too small a proportion of the music buying population to get that power. All we can do is lobby for proper 'audiophile' versions to be produced in limited quantities and be willing to pay silly money to get our hands on them.
I have outstanding vinyl and outstanding CD's. The only option if you really like something is to get the best possible version/copy of what you like. I ended up with 4 copies of one LP across 2 labels to get what I was after and I think that is what we need to do as the resources we crave diminish.
I don't think we can get everything changed, we represent too small a proportion of the music buying population to get that power. All we can do is lobby for proper 'audiophile' versions to be produced in limited quantities and be willing to pay silly money to get our hands on them.
I have outstanding vinyl and outstanding CD's. The only option if you really like something is to get the best possible version/copy of what you like. I ended up with 4 copies of one LP across 2 labels to get what I was after and I think that is what we need to do as the resources we crave diminish.
johnfromnorwich
even my wife noticed the dif..
If you already have the original 1994 CD, I wouldn't bother. I don't think it's been remastered either. I have both and they sound the same to me.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
too late...
I bought The Cure's Disintigration on 180g vinyl thinking it would add something to the very good CD.
What a crock of s%#t !
Apart from the fact that it sounds sooooo bad it looks as if the vinyl was an old milk crate in a previous life ( yes I know milk crates aren't vinyl but I couldn't think of anything vinyl that might be recycleable )
Bathroom flooring?
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
I've just listened to Prokofiev's piano concertos 2 and 3 on EMI HMV 1980 vinyl, Alexeev/Temirkanov. So many things wrong with it... ...and yet... No CD/digital music I have ever listened to has sounded so effin wonderful, the hair was standing up on the back of my neck. The textures seem so rich and raw and real. I just have to put it on again now.
On the sleeve is an oxfam sticker showing that it cost me 99p. My vinyl playback system was shamefully expensive though (WTA/Uphorik), and of course, a lot of the time bad pressings and damaged records make a painful racquet. But when it's right, the grin is irrepressible. Perhaps it's the unlikely triumph of the underdog that makes us care, as if the vinyl mimics the struggle of musicians to wrestle what they imagine out of grudging instruments. Gotta get back to it.
On the sleeve is an oxfam sticker showing that it cost me 99p. My vinyl playback system was shamefully expensive though (WTA/Uphorik), and of course, a lot of the time bad pressings and damaged records make a painful racquet. But when it's right, the grin is irrepressible. Perhaps it's the unlikely triumph of the underdog that makes us care, as if the vinyl mimics the struggle of musicians to wrestle what they imagine out of grudging instruments. Gotta get back to it.
Sondek,
could I seek some advise please. I have a very varied taste in music but have struggled to find my way into classical music. 2 out of every 3 LP's I pick up from charity shops seem a bit inaccessible to me.
I like Grieg's Death of Aase, the Planets Suite, some Sibelius, cello music, some Opera. I don't like Elgar, Tchaikovsky.
So it would seem I prefer something with a melody. If you get a minute could you list a few composers that possibly fit the bill.
thanks
Hugh.
could I seek some advise please. I have a very varied taste in music but have struggled to find my way into classical music. 2 out of every 3 LP's I pick up from charity shops seem a bit inaccessible to me.
I like Grieg's Death of Aase, the Planets Suite, some Sibelius, cello music, some Opera. I don't like Elgar, Tchaikovsky.
So it would seem I prefer something with a melody. If you get a minute could you list a few composers that possibly fit the bill.
thanks
Hugh.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
I'm really not qualified to advise you, Hugh, as I'm an ignoramus who just plonks records on the deck and lets it wash over him. Also, this kind of conversation should take place in the music section, I suspect. I don't think it's fair to say that Elgar or Tchaikovsky shouldn't appeal to those who seek brilliant melodies either. I don't think you could accuse Elgar's cello concerto of lacking melodic interest. I can say that I am a sucker for Monteverdi, Handel, Richard Strauss, Schubert, Dvorak and Prokofiev though Mozart, Beethoven and Mahler sometimes leave me feeling a little irritated. In the end it must come down to personal enjoyment, and experimenting with new composers and works is half the fun. The radio is a great way to broaden experience.
It is often said around here that CD is a better medium for classical music, and the arguments make a lot of sense, but whether it's distortion or veracity, sometimes vinyl seems to have a rich texture, tangible presence, and finesse that I don't recall hearing from CD very often, if ever. Of course you have to be able to overlook mis-tracking, noise, high-pass filtering, mono bass, record wear, and having to get off your arse every twenty minutes to flip it. Enjoy yourself!
this is fabulously preposterously easy to recreate with plug ins in the digital domain and gets audiophile types, myself included all gooey in the nether regions.
Check out ambiophonics and the work of the RACE crosstalk eliminator - getting a lot of traction in soundbar makers to give an insanely wide presentation from small boxes like jawbone jambox an braven avoiding the telltale phasing effect of Q sound encodes. I used to use it quite a lot but it always sat weirdly when non ambiophonics treated tracks were added. Sometimes use it on big spaces to get that bigness back if lost in the recording.
Use with caution. Wicked impressive though.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Yes, very interesting. I think vinyl and other boutique audiophile items with "big soundstage" are applying some kind of similar effect to the sound. It ain't accurate. It can sound really good though, I agree!
Probably the most illuminating demo I've experienced was digital through a horn system at a hi-fi show. Sounded horrible. Then they played the same digital file but recorded to a reel-to-reel and played back through said reel-to-reel machine. It sounded loads better! This proved for me, with my own ears, that analogue doesn't "preserve detail and richness" that digital cannot. Instead it applies euphonic distortions which are pleasing in certain scenarios AKA it sounds good.
Sounding good isn't a crime. It's a matter of taste and also it depends if you like a particular genre.
Of course, an accurate system can replay a recording which has had these effects applied to it. Then, you will hear a wide soundstage. We are back to that thing called transparency again... For me, I like transparency and hearing the differences between recordings - I listen to all kinds of music which may have something to do with it.
Darren
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
I agree. I do wonder whether one of the principal obstacles to progress may be people's unwillingness to accept that what they like might be additive noise and distortion. There does seem to be quite a lot of evidence to support this, which suggests that we could probably reproduce the sound of expensive boutique products cheaply via dsp. The problem is- I don't think people would want the cheap solution even if it sounded the same.