Does connecting a streamer to Ethernet make much difference compared to wifi?

[garyi]

It’s a very cool amp well suited for this room and speakers, for sure it doesn’t limit ethernet upgardes

There has to come a point though, where you need to step back and acknowledge you have spent more on ethernet cables than the amplifier.

I am actually not taking the piss out of you, because, genuinely I think its a problem for some blokes who cannot see the woods for the trees in all sorts of hobbies.

 

[Phyztech]

you have spent more on ethernet cables than the amplifier.

not even close), those are coming from other systems at home. I’m not telling that anybody has to be in a rush to power a router with a 2k cable, if you’re running a separate dac it’s more important for example. But typically people even not started to experiment with a sound quality however got an opinion of what can bring benefits and what cannot. That is what really funny and not scientific at all.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I’m running Network Acoustics Eno currently. The fact that you have a good experience for networks doesn’t mean you know how a good streaming system can sound. 0s and 1s are just voltages, they’re disturbed with an associated noise as any other signals.

What do you think happens when 'disturbed' 0 and 1s arrive at your equipment?

Are they accepted or rejected?

 

[wulbert]

As we are supposed to discuss ethernet things here let me show how to properly power ethernet stuff, 2 cables here, one for the router, another for the switch, combined retail is around 4k, a bit of overkill but quite big upgrade sonically vs the cables under 1k:

I find this approach hard to get my head around to be honest.
I had to repair my broadband/phone-line last summer when a neighbour cut though it with their hedge trimmer. When I examined the broadband cable I could see that the wires providing my internet connection were tiny cross-section things. Really just a filament with a cross-sectional area in the fractions of a millimetre. And only two of them were in use.
It seems counter-intuative to me that my broadband arrives down this tiny little cable and then a big, fat ethernet cable from wall to device is going to improve the sound somehow?

 

[Phyztech]

Accepted and that sounds badly)

 

[garyi]

But typically people even not started to experiment with a sound quality however got an opinion of what can bring benefits and what cannot. That is what really funny and not scientific at all.

Many people don't have OCD. I suppose the adage that if it makes you happy fill your boots, but speaking of scientific, what evidence do you have that a £1000 Ethernet cable makes any difference what so ever?

 

[kensalriser]

I find this approach hard to get my head around to be honest.
I had to repair my broadband/phone-line last summer when a neighbour cut though it with their hedge trimmer. When I examined the broadband cable I could see that the wires providing my internet connection were tiny cross-section things. Really just a filament with a cross-sectional area in the fractions of a millimetre. And only two of them were in use.
It seems counter-intuative to me that my broadband arrives down this tiny little cable and then a big, fat ethernet cable from wall to device is going to improve the sound somehow?

Wait until we tell them about all the cables and wires that bring power to your home from the generating source, and all those bringing the internet to your home from the transmission source.

 

[garyi]

I find this approach hard to get my head around to be honest.
I had to repair my broadband/phone-line last summer when a neighbour cut though it with their hedge trimmer. When I examined the broadband cable I could see that the wires providing my internet connection were tiny cross-section things. Really just a filament with a cross-sectional area in the fractions of a millimetre. And only two of them were in use.
It seems counter-intuative to me that my broadband arrives down this tiny little cable and then a big, fat ethernet cable from wall to device is going to improve the sound somehow?

This is fibre:

 

[Phyztech]

It seems counter-intuative to me

It is but so what? EM energy doesn‘t even travel through the power cable.

 

[Phyztech]

what evidence do you have that a £1000 Ethernet cable makes any difference what so ever?

Observations obviously

 

[foxwelljsly]

I don't think this is quite right.

You can upgrade your ethernet cable to audiophile grade cryogenically frozen plutonium with diamond encrusted quantum connectors but wi-fi is stuck with the lame sounding consumer-grade air in your house.

Something to think about.

Have you tried replacing all the air in your listening room with 100% nitrogen?

 

[paulfromcamden]

Have you tried replacing all the air in your listening room with 100% nitrogen?

I'm currently negotiating the purchase of several cubic feet of vintage air from Lee Perry's Black Ark studio. Though I'm a bit worried about customs.

 

[garyi]

Observations obviously

No that's not evidence, sorry. Evidence in hifi is that 'even the wife heard the difference', you have not used that one yet.

 

[foxwelljsly]

What do you think happens when 'disturbed' 0 and 1s arrive at your equipment?

Are they accepted or rejected?

It’s been a while since I studied the nitty gritty of it, but I recall finding the way in Ethernet repeatedly and randomly broadcasts packets around a network and then accommodates collisions by relying on checksums to confirm their complete reception in the correct place simultaneously elegant, clever, wildly inefficient and bonkers. Rather like Bitcoin transaction validation, which is even more wildly inefficient.

The very basis of Ethernet is that you have loads of packets firing over your network that get damaged in collisions and the protocol is designed to accommodate this and reject them. IIRC. I don’t understand how anything other than a break in continuity could affect how this works.

 

[Phyztech]

Ah, for sure . It’s impossible not to hear a difference that a well organised power supply brings (with exception of the deaf ASR guys who think that several quid chinese dacs sound good enough but that is a usual thing )

 

[Alex S]

Since you quote the deaf ASR guys, I grant most of them are, these impossible not to hear differences I presume were heard during proper unsighted tests.

 

[paulfromcamden]

It’s been a while since I studied the nitty gritty of it, but I recall finding the way in Ethernet repeatedly and randomly broadcasts packets around a network and then accommodates collisions by relying on checksums to confirm their complete reception in the correct place simultaneously elegant, clever, wildly inefficient and bonkers. Rather like Bitcoin transaction validation, which is even more wildly inefficient.

The very basis of Ethernet is that you have loads of packets firing over your network that get damaged in collisions and the protocol is designed to accommodate this and reject them. IIRC.

CSMA/CD - a bit like a drunken pub conversation where everyone tries to speak at once then stops and waits a random amount of time before trying again.

Though in practice that ended long ago with the introduction of switches which forward unicast traffic to a single recipient.

A bit like everyone txting everyone else directly rather than everyone shouting across a crowded pub - if I can stretch an already ropey analogy to the point of breaking.

 

[Jubal]

I’m running Network Acoustics Eno currently. The fact that you have a good experience for networks doesn’t mean you know how a good streaming system can sound. 0s and 1s are just voltages, they’re disturbed with an associated noise as any other signals.

Whatever makes you happy. It’s not just my experience though. It’s high end networking as an entire multi £bn industry. The entire world literally falls apart if data isn’t 1:1 when transmitted. A 0 is always a 0 when reconstructed at the remote end. Like for like. There’s no artifact, noise or other interference. It’s all ignored, if it even occurs at all. Just 0. What there is though is buffering, queues, checksums etc. That’s where danger occurs and a device has to be up to the job for the throughput, speed of the ports and so on.

 

[adamdea]

This is how to do cabling properly

I assume the label is to identify the correct orientation in your directional mains cable (although no longer strictly necessary once you've put the plug on.).

 

[paulfromcamden]

Accepted and that sounds badly)

Incorrect. Ethernet uses a form of error detection called a frame check sequence. If the checksum doesn't exactly match the contents of the frame because it has been corrupted somehow it is discarded.

Frame check sequence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org