On my EV the brake lights are a little too quick to come on when using regenerative braking and my only issue in 2 years has been tailgating idiots who assume I am brake-testing them when I’m simply easing off the accelerator to take a bend or whatever.
To put it even more clearly there is no way of decelerating a petrol or diesel vehicle from 60 to zero in 13 seconds without activating the brake lights short of driving it into a wall. As such if anyone is defending this specific EV behaviour they are arguing for a substantial change to the existing concept and implementation of brake lights on road vehicles. I’ve no idea why anyone would make that argument. The lights are there to show a vehicle is slowing down, and that is exactly what they should do.
I don't think this is correct. 60-0 in 13 seconds is pretty mild deceleration, very similar to what you could achieve under engine braking in an ICE car, a situation which similarly doesn't illuminate the brake lights.To put it even more clearly there is no way of decelerating a petrol or diesel vehicle from 60 to zero in 13 seconds without activating the brake lights short of driving it into a wall. As such if anyone is defending this specific EV behaviour they are arguing for a substantial change to the existing concept and implementation of brake lights on road vehicles. I’ve no idea why anyone would make that argument. The lights are there to show a vehicle is slowing down, and that is exactly what they should do.
I'm sorry but your POV isn't based on the facts.
To my interpretation your statement below and the passage you quote backs my point fully:
“The brake lights are there to signal that the driver in front has applied the brakes.”
"All stop lamps must light up immediately when the brake is applied and switch off immediately when the brake is released".)”
You seem to be viewing the term ‘brakes’ as a 20th century friction-based concept such as drums or discs. You are describing a specific device, not a concept or behave.
From a logical perspective the term should include all technology that behaves in a way that applies rapid controlled deceleration in that manner. The driver in the vehicle behind shouldn’t need to make allowances for different technologies. There should be no “oh, that’s an EV, best assume it has no brake lights” aspect to this. On a rainy foggy morning up on the moors these things matter.
A modern EV brake light should indicate deceleration of the kind that would occur in old 20th century petrol/diesel vehicle technology were the brakes to be applied. The visual indicators should be entirely consistent with deceleration behaviour of the vehicle, the technology is irrelevant.
Just to clarify one thing, the deceleration you cite is SLOW, and something that you will see with ICE cars and no-one has posted a video about that.
You are also conveniently ignoring my other comment that it is really bad driving if you only depend on brake lights for visual clues on other road user's behaviour.
And they react by creeping even closer?
When I'm tailgated I slowly crawl down to a halt and let them pass. Then it some one else's neck that will be hurt next time.
The video indicated falling off the parcel shelf and IIRC stated a force of 3g. I’ve no idea why some drivers here view this as controversial.
Agree with this. Emergency braking would probably stop most cars from 60mph in about 3 seconds, so about 1g, maybe a little better in good road conditions, good tyres, etc. Sharp braking, ie the sort that could take a following driver by surprise, might be half that, so 6s 60-0. I'd say gentle braking would achieve the same in perhaps 10 seconds, and a following vehicle would only really have a problem if not paying sufficient attention, or if tailgating really close. So 60-0 in 13 seconds is a pretty gentle drift down to a standstill, very much akin to taking your foot off the gas in, say, next to top gear and letting the car decelerate under engine braking. Nobody expects or requires brake lights to activate for that. It's what I do when approaching a junction and I can see that I'll have to stop. Not <touches wood> been rear-ended yet for that.He meant 0.3g. Deceleration of 3g means stopping in under 1s from 60mph.
The deceleration he demonstrates is very very slow and nothing different compared to current ICE vehicles and people are not being killed in vast numbers in 'rear-enders'.
It's a bit of a non-story. Maybe he's running out of 70s and 80s electronic doodads to talk about to keep his viewer numbers up.
And that is exactly what brakes are. Not engine braking or deceleration. Your interpretation is faulty.To my interpretation your statement below and the passage you quote backs my point fully:
“The brake lights are there to signal that the driver in front has applied the brakes.”
"All stop lamps must light up immediately when the brake is applied and switch off immediately when the brake is released".)”
You seem to be viewing the term ‘brakes’ as a 20th century friction-based concept such as drums or discs. .
And that is exactly what brakes are. Not engine braking or deceleration. Your interpretation is faulty.
Again, your interpretation is wrong. Nothing to do with digging in, simply understanding what the term means in law. And if you read the posts here, it wouldn't necessarily make road use safer. If you drove you might understand it better.Again I’m surprised how many people are digging-in against something that would obviously make road use safer.
How often would you say brake lights coming on has been your first indication that something was about to happen?I never ignore bad driving. I’ve very nearly been killed by it multiple times. As a cyclist I’m very frequently overtaken just prior to a left turn where the motorist then immediately they are in front slams the brakes on forcing me to brake/swerve in a really dangerous manner. Plus huge numbers of drivers around here are pissed or stoned (often a real stink of skunk at lights etc). Please don’t take away the few remaining visual cues!
Thanks for that, and you make a good point. However 60-0 in 13 seconds is a little under 0.25g, not 0.3g, and an ICE car in anything other than top gear will likely decelerate much more under engine braking than an automatic will, so I'd not be surprised to see something approaching 0.2g under engine braking in some circumstances.I'm with Tony on this. I used to work on driver behavior monitoring using accelerometers and CAN bus data. 0.3G is more than a gentle coast to a stop. An emergency stop on a dry road with ABS in a typical family car is around 0.75G. Taking my foot off the gas in my automatic ICE car would result in a deceleration of no more than 0.1G.
Clearly, where regenerative braking and one pedal driving can slow the car more rapidly than coasting in an ICE car there's a balance to be struck as to when the vehicle puts on the brake lights - it can no longer simply be a function of the brake pedal being pressed - it has to be based on deceleration above a certain threshold. It seems like Hyundai have set that threshold a little too high, and it sounds like Tesla may have set that threshold a little too low, judging by reports that Tesla brake lights come on perhaps a little more than they should.
Of course following drivers should pay attention and not rely on brake lights alone, but the video does suggest that Hyundai might want to think about a software update to enable the brake lights a little sooner.