Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I don’t think you should single out public sector workers. I know plenty of people outside that sector who haven’t had a pay rise of any sort since the noughties.
Are you optimistic about the UK's future?
- Thread starter wulbert
- Start date
I don’t think you should single out public sector workers. I know plenty of people outside that sector who haven’t had a pay rise of any sort since the noughties.
sean99
pfm Member
I agree with you, and it's incredibly depressing, but the bigger picture is that you still live in a lovely part of a nice country (I used to live in Ipswich, then in Cambridge - did lots of cycling between the two), and, at a guess, 75%+ of the world's population would gladly trade places.
But it is deeply depressing to see the UK so poorly governed, and with no real end in sight.
sean99
pfm Member
The point of this thread is that, over the past decade this is less true, and. unless there is a very significant change in the direction of travel it will continue to be less true in the future.
You may have had it pretty good, but I think that for a child being born in the UK now it is much less certain that they have won life's lottery, and that is due, in no small part to the voting record of your generation.
monkfish
pfm Member
Tell that to someone who sleeps on the street.
Ponty
pfm Member
I’d suggest that applies to a hell of a lot of places. Eg I love the US, but there’s no way I’d want to live there. Canada, maybe but I’d take the UK every time.
richardg
Admonishtrator
I used to come to France in The 80s and had a feeling it was a bit third world: no helmets on motorbikes, dogshit everywhere, cars all beaten up, filterless gitanes for about 10p a pack, girls with hairy legs and armpits.
Now when I come to UK from France it feels the other way round: motorbikes all stolen, shopping trollies everywhere, people all beaten up, supermarket pizzas for about 10p a pack, girls with ridiculous amounts of make up.
Now when I come to UK from France it feels the other way round: motorbikes all stolen, shopping trollies everywhere, people all beaten up, supermarket pizzas for about 10p a pack, girls with ridiculous amounts of make up.
NeilR
pfm Member
becoming less and less true I am afraid. You have to live outside the country for a while and then go back to visit before the reality dawns on you how bad things are in the UK.
To answer the original question, i am not at all optimistic about the UK.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
An understandable response but a tad simplistic. I’ve worked in advice work for close to four decades. There are plenty of people on low incomes who historically have often had a significant disposable income. I include people on benefits in that up until the introduction of the benefit freeze, cap and UC. Lots of people, and I’ve friends who have done this, who earned large and early; chose to get out and have chosen to not taken pensions early but just live fairly straightforwardly. Disability benefits are wholly misrepresented as being about the extra costs of disability. Where that applies then yes they tend to get absorbed as part of everyday expenditure and leave people with minimal disposable incomes. Where that’s not the case then there are often significant disposable incomes resulting in capital accruing and overpayments of means-tested benefits in consequence.
The other side of this is people with quite significant incomes who find themselves with outgoings they could not have imagined because of Covid, the so-called cost of living crisis; negative equity; legal costs etc.
So, really not at all as simple as “expenditure choices are for those with a decent income”.
Wholly agree with regard to economic illiteracy.
Edit: sorry, should have added that as a public sector worker I have taken a pay cut in 28 of the last 31 years.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I wasn’t singling out public sector workers so much as using them as an example against the suggestion from a poster that lack of disposable income is not the problem. I’m sure there are are plenty outside the public sector in similar circumstances but I can refer to public sector workers with ease and without needing to check references so my mention of ps workers was not intended to exclude other people. There will of course be many in the private sector in similar situations but that is not my area of experience. As @Tony L says, self employed and zero hours contracts are also significant.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
The point is that for a significant number of people things are getting significantly worse. Those on here say ‘well, it fine where I am’ really are missing the point. The point is that for a significant number of people, people working in key areas that support and maintain the infrastructure and services that we all depend on, their standard of living is falling.
Sorry, but I find the “I’m alright Jack” attitude quite immoral
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
The standard of living for many is falling. That is a negative.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
You think that while the rich have got richer, the poor have got richer too?
No. The fact is that while the rich have got richer, the poor have got poorer and what’s more that rate that the rich have got richer while the poor have got poorer has increased exponentially since 1979. What’s more, it’s an ideological choice.
That is a negative.
daytona600
Registered User
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Not simplistic at all. Certainly not as simplistic as saying that disposable income is not an issue, that it’s all down to spending ‘choices’.
The fact of the matter is that the standard if living is falling.
“In 2022-23 and 2023-24, living standards are set for the largest fall on record. This box set out our forecast for real household income, the impact of government policy in buffering the income shock, and its implications for our consumption forecast.”
https://obr.uk/box/the-outlook-for-household-income-and-consumption/
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
Oh, you think I need advising on the cost of living crisis. Excellent.
None of your link addresses the point made in my post but carry on. The ONS addresses this far more directly but are micro level many of us work in services where our casework recording software enables to pull off data about all sorts if things including income, disposable income etc. and it really isn’t as simple as you present. Nor has it ever been. I’ve dealt with people on means-tested benefits with significant disposable income and someone earning £100k with close to zero. Latter was not about choice either.
None of your link addresses the point made in my post but carry on. The ONS addresses this far more directly but are micro level many of us work in services where our casework recording software enables to pull off data about all sorts if things including income, disposable income etc. and it really isn’t as simple as you present. Nor has it ever been. I’ve dealt with people on means-tested benefits with significant disposable income and someone earning £100k with close to zero. Latter was not about choice either.