advertisement


Is the Metropolitan Police institutionally corrupt?

If I were a good apple I couldn't tolerate working for an organisation that's so full of bad ones. Institutionally racist and corrupt - how do you tell the family? A fish rots from the head down and a bad apple ruins the whole sack...
 
Birmingham Six, Guildford Four, Bridgewater Three, Stephen Lawrence, Hillsborough, Orgreave, Ian Tomlinson, Jean Charles De Menezes, Wayne Couzens (termed ‘the rapist’ by police colleagues) David Carrick and countless others, and we’re still going for the “few bad apples” line.

Raze the whole f***ing orchard to the ground.
 
This is such a complex subject though isn't it? On a purely anecdotal level I have had a few dealings with Met Police officers who were polite, helpful and did their job as far as I was concerned, but then I'm white and privileged so it's not much of a surprise I guess. That said I can't bring myself to believe that every serving officer is somehow a nasty fascist pig, the same way I can't bring myself to believe that there isn't a huge institutional problem in certain parts of the force. The real question though is how to fix it and all the prose I read on here is either just more examples used to illustrate how bad the police are (position reinforcement amongst posters I guess) or solutions like they are not fit for purpose and need disbanding which to anyone pragmatic is not a viable scenario. So if we accept that there are some huge problems in the Met (and I think anyone with a level head would have to given the evidence) how do we, as a democratic and law based nation, go about fixing it? I don't have an answer by the way, but equally I am not a regular poster on this thread as I feel unable to contribute in a positive way. I'm genuinely interested as to what the solution might be though so do any of the regulars on here have some sort of realistic plan and before you ask I know it's not going to be quick or easy solution.

P.S. As a slight aside I always wonder what those with hugely entrenched positions against the police do when they are burgled or their car is stolen etc.... do you just let it go or call them like the rest of us would? Not having a dig, I am genuinely interested.
 
But again, I'd be looking for an underlying issue for which the event was an aggravating or triggering factor. It doesn't happen spontaneously, as a rule. Communities don't riot at the drop of a hat.
Most people in Communities don't riot.

One mistake that is often (always?) made is to believe that everyone who lives in an area is in one Community - they are not. It is particularly true that in areas of deprivation there are a multitude of different "communities of interest", even in the same street let alone the same district. Some of those communities are law abiding, some are not.
 
Most people in Communities don't riot.

One mistake that is often (always?) made is to believe that everyone who lives in an area is in one Community - they are not. It is particularly true that in areas of deprivation there are a multitude of different "communities of interest", even in the same street let alone the same district. Some of those communities are law abiding, some are not.
Yes indeed, and I was using the term 'community' in its loosest sense. But it remains the case that 'communities' are not in a rolling state of riot - it's not like there is faction A' which riots at the drop of a hat, and 'faction B' which is mostly drug dealers and scumbags, but don't riot because they keep a low profile, and 'faction C' which is unemployed feckless types who like a good riot if somebody else is starting one, and, and...

My point is that riots are, thankfully, rare and therefore remarkable events. Their very lack of frequency points towards there being some sort of underlying cause coupled with a trigger event.
 
Yes indeed, and I was using the term 'community' in its loosest sense. But it remains the case that 'communities' are not in a rolling state of riot - it's not like there is faction A' which riots at the drop of a hat, and 'faction B' which is mostly drug dealers and scumbags, but don't riot because they keep a low profile, and 'faction C' which is unemployed feckless types who like a good riot if somebody else is starting one, and, and...

My point is that riots are, thankfully, rare and therefore remarkable events. Their very lack of frequency points towards there being some sort of underlying cause coupled with a trigger event.
No one riots without a reason. Some people are opportunists and an incident like this is a good excuse to try it on. They probably have no interest in whether the Police were responsible for anything. General disaffection or criminal intent - I doubt anyone knows or can know.
 
P.S. As a slight aside I always wonder what those with hugely entrenched positions against the police do when they are burgled or their car is stolen etc.... do you just let it go or call them like the rest of us would? Not having a dig, I am genuinely interested.

Conversely, do people still have any expectation that anything meaningful will be done, Tigs?
 
P.S. As a slight aside I always wonder what those with hugely entrenched positions against the police do when they are burgled or their car is stolen etc.... do you just let it go or call them like the rest of us would? Not having a dig, I am genuinely interested.

I don't see why
a) expecting the police to investigate car thefts
and
b) wishing the police to not be institutionally corrupt, racist, misogynist and homophobic
should be incompatible views.
 
Conversely, do people still have any expectation that anything will be done, Tigs?

Good point, I'm not sure tbh. I'd still call them, but then maybe I live in the past. In fact I did call them when my ride on mower was taken (first world problem I know) and they did attend/take prints etc. but this is rural Norfolk, probably less likely in the cities and towns.
 
As a slight aside I always wonder what those with hugely entrenched positions against the police do when they are burgled or their car is stolen etc.... do you just let it go or call them like the rest of us would? Not having a dig, I am genuinely interested.

Report it to the police as I would need a crime number to make an insurance claim. I would have zero expectation that the police would ‘solve’ the crime as that is not the purpose of a police force.

That majority of ‘crime’ solved by the police is a result of grassing up, tip offs etc. Of course there are the high profile cases where they must be seen to act. I forget the actual statistic but the average police officer on the beat would happen upon a crime in progress about once every 12 years.

Of course, water companies can pollute waterways, Home Secretaries can pervert the course of justice, prime ministers can lie through their teeth and break laws with impunity and police might, just might issue a £50 fixed penalty. A kid rioting in Wales who nicks a pair of Nike out a shop can expect around six months.
 
I don't see why
a) expecting the police to investigate car thefts
and
b) wishing the police to not be institutionally corrupt, racist, misogynist and homophobic
should be incompatible views.

I think you've missed my point. All I meant is that if your view is so negative that you actually fear them in some ways the what do you do when you have a situation when you would normally need them.
 
This is such a complex subject though isn't it? On a purely anecdotal level I have had a few dealings with Met Police officers who were polite, helpful and did their job as far as I was concerned

I had to liaise regularly with the police as part of my job. My experience mostly mirrors yours. I was seen as an ally, not a potential rioter, football hooligan, drug dealer etc. Some of the coppers I came into contact with seemed reasonable enough human beings on a personal level.

But it’s not about individuals and their personalities. It’s about the whole culture and structure of the police force that instinctively perceives working class communities, trade unionists, black kids etc as potential ‘trouble makers’ who require robust handling. It’s about the few good apples being either unable or unwilling to speak out because of the ostracisation described in the evidence of some of the recent inquiries into the behaviour of the police. Racism, sexism, misogyny, etc is not challenged. Moreover, it is tacitly encouraged when senior police officers deny there is any systemic or structural problems.
 
Has anyone posted that they fear the police?
Well surely if you're not white, not male, not heterosexual and you think the police are racist, misogynistic and homophobic then you would 'fear' them, to some extent at least?

Anyway why not address the main part of my post? What is the solution?
 
I don't see why
a) expecting the police to investigate car thefts
and
b) wishing the police to not be institutionally corrupt, racist, misogynist and homophobic
should be incompatible views.
It’s fascinating isn’t it - I mean regardless of Tigger’s intended meaning here it is a very common response: You criticise the police but who do you come crying to when the Scorpio killer’s after you eh?! I think it’s an acknowledgment that the brutality and the discrimination are actually the essence of the police: it’s impossible to imagine the police without these things. They’re also what a lot of people actually *want* from the police.
 
I suppose for some aspects of policing, we do need and want 'hard men who will visit violence on those who wish us harm' but that must always be the extreme position, not, as it sometimes feels, the default.
 
Must be weird for them to find themselves confessing (to institutional racism) without anyone getting assaulted as part of the process.
 
Few bad apples etc aside, when you have a police service that has been cut back to the bones, now spends most of their time working as social workers or mental health nurses corners are going to get cut and tempers are going to get frayed.

There's no arguing that the police are institutionally racist, the evidence of this goes back far beyond cuts etc but I don't think any of these issues can be addressed and resolved until the govt are held accountable for cutbacks to both policing and adult social care.

I talk with the police on a weekly basis and you'd be surprised at the percentage who spend the majority of their shifts sat in A&E chaperoning for mental health issues or locking people up in cells because they have nobody/nowhere to hand them over to.

But once again on loony marxist pfm it's a simple equation of "police = facist nazi scum" :rolleyes:

Apart from the last sentence, this isn’t a bad summary. The mental health comment resonates as I was heavily involved in reducing the use of police to deal with service users suffering an acute mental health crisis, or not. Notts are the only force still operating a street triage car, mainly because someone set up the monitoring and recording correctly, making the project bomb-proof;)

If I were a good apple I couldn't tolerate working for an organisation that's so full of bad ones. Institutionally racist and corrupt - how do you tell the family? A fish rots from the head down and a bad apple ruins the whole sack...

This doesn’t just happen in policing. Just look at the NHS.
 


advertisement


Back
Top