Seanm
pfm Member
He doesn’t consider them real people.
Is the Metropolitan Police institutionally corrupt?
- Thread starter paulfromcamden
- Start date
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Ageed, and also acknowledge wider, balanced and objective views regarding the whole circumstances? The violent disorder in wales following the fatal RTC is a case in point. Quick to attribute the issue to be the fault of the police, some offenders go and trash an unconnected, innocent residents motor(or 2).
The disorder is Wales will not be declared a riot by authorities, either. It was a violent disorder.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
If my daughter died riding an illegal vehicle on the streets that I'd provided for her guess what, the buck stops with me.
Ymmv
gavreid
Pretty Words...
If you know the recent history of 'disorder' in the UK (football and rightwing thuggery aside) it's always been the Police. Read Scarman, Macpherson - nothing's changed for the better because there's no political will to do so.
Incidentally I used the term 'riot' in quotation marks. They use riot when they want to impose life sentences, as at Orgreave, which they couldn't get to stick.
Seanm
pfm Member
If you imagine highly personalised scenarios you'll imagine yourself into personal responsibility. The question of policing isn't personal though.
I don't know what happened here but it looks like the police lied, as they always do, until they get caught on camera. That's on them. Looks like they've a history of over-policing local communities too, including running scooters off the road for LOLs. Also on them, as are the consequences. **** around and find out, as they say.
Let's see what comes out. If the police come out of it looking good, well. First time for everything.
vacuum_tubes
pfm Member
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I think it's helpful to remember that the normal community reaction to a tragic event in that community is sympathy. Little knots of people gather and give each other comfort; piles of flowers, cards, teddy bears build up at the scene. That sort of thing. Not rioting, or 'violent disorder'. It's not 'jumping to conclusions' to ask why this one is different.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I'm curious about the mindset of members who instinctively rush in to defend the police version of events in a situation like this. That forces are sometimes less than truthful is a matter of public record - just look at the police statements following the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes.
I'm not 'anti police' but where their statements are contradicted by witness statements or video footage I'm not sure it's sensible to automatically accept them at face value.
FWIW I can quite understand a fear of 'the mob' and a desire for law and order to be maintained. I value my safety and the security of my home. When there were riots in Camden in 2011 I found it extremely unsettling.
I'm not 'anti police' but where their statements are contradicted by witness statements or video footage I'm not sure it's sensible to automatically accept them at face value.
FWIW I can quite understand a fear of 'the mob' and a desire for law and order to be maintained. I value my safety and the security of my home. When there were riots in Camden in 2011 I found it extremely unsettling.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
"Police Scotland chief says force is institutionally racist"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65706748
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65706748
Cav
pfm Member
This is not that different though, is it? It is certainly not unprecedented for some in the local community to respond to such situations by trashing their neighbours property and/or looting and burning local business.
Cav
pfm Member
It is no more appropriate to automatically believe the Police than it is to automatically believe anyone else.
He's been Chief Constable since 2018 and he retires this August. I guess this awareness of the issues just wasn't evident any sooner.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
I’ve policed plenty of disorder situations, between 2985 and 2015, none of which were started by the police. Incl football, EDL and all sorts of other stuff. I fully acknowledge the instances you allude to, but your sweeping generalisations do your argument no favours from my POV.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
How do you write a two line response to a forum post without generalising?
Again, I used quotation marks so that you knew what I meant by disorder but you're generalising to make your point.
Blame the police until proven otherwise is a safe position - this conversation arose because the facts didn't align with the story we had been given, yet again.
Anything you do say, may later be used against in court. What can possibly be a problem when we investigate ourselves!
Any decent cop must know that the police force now contains far too many security level staff who would not have been accepted pre "remove 20,000" austerity I would never consult or relate to the police because I do not want to be kicked or punched or consider it acceptable to deal with an organisation able to push women over.
I would never do anything to impede or assault the police but I do not trust them, it is easy to call them nazi's ,thugs or anything else. They are now an army who need to start again or get back to the days when they merited respect .
Any decent cop must know that the police force now contains far too many security level staff who would not have been accepted pre "remove 20,000" austerity I would never consult or relate to the police because I do not want to be kicked or punched or consider it acceptable to deal with an organisation able to push women over.
I would never do anything to impede or assault the police but I do not trust them, it is easy to call them nazi's ,thugs or anything else. They are now an army who need to start again or get back to the days when they merited respect .
vacuum_tubes
pfm Member
Few bad apples etc aside, when you have a police service that has been cut back to the bones, now spends most of their time working as social workers or mental health nurses corners are going to get cut and tempers are going to get frayed.
There's no arguing that the police are institutionally racist, the evidence of this goes back far beyond cuts etc but I don't think any of these issues can be addressed and resolved until the govt are held accountable for cutbacks to both policing and adult social care.
I talk with the police on a weekly basis and you'd be surprised at the percentage who spend the majority of their shifts sat in A&E chaperoning for mental health issues or locking people up in cells because they have nobody/nowhere to hand them over to.
But once again on loony marxist pfm it's a simple equation of "police = facist nazi scum"
There's no arguing that the police are institutionally racist, the evidence of this goes back far beyond cuts etc but I don't think any of these issues can be addressed and resolved until the govt are held accountable for cutbacks to both policing and adult social care.
I talk with the police on a weekly basis and you'd be surprised at the percentage who spend the majority of their shifts sat in A&E chaperoning for mental health issues or locking people up in cells because they have nobody/nowhere to hand them over to.
But once again on loony marxist pfm it's a simple equation of "police = facist nazi scum"
Seanm
pfm Member
I hate this ritual where you can acknowledge the institutional racism, corruption, misogyny and violence of the police but still have to say they're a great bunch of lads who generally do a good job with little thanks. No doubt there are some nice guys out there and not all of the work is going to involve abusing people but it's a low bar isn't it.