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Post-Trump: III (decline, further tantrums, legal proceedings, book deals etc)


Meidas Touch is more than a bit excitable IMO, but it sounds like E Jean Caroll may well be going after Trump again for the fresh deformation in the CNN broadcast. I’m obviously no lawyer, but I’d have thought she had a slam-dunk case here given Trump has just been found guilty to the tune of $5m on this very topic.
 
Tony L said:

Meidas Touch is more than a bit excitable IMO, but it sounds like E Jean Caroll may well be going after Trump again for the fresh deformation in the CNN broadcast. I’m obviously no lawyer, but I’d have thought she had a slam-dunk case here given Trump has just been found guilty to the tune of $5m on this very topic.
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At this point she should be able to get an injunction against further defamation, I would think.
 
Tony L said:
Meidas Touch is more than a bit excitable IMO
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I think their main problem is they do so many videos, presumably for $$$ reasons, with a new one appearing for every new factoid which inevitably means they are mostly padding. I haven't watched the one you posted, but figure it's 15mins of Ben M. s-l-o-w-l-y reading from a court document or newspaper article to essentially say "EJC might sue again as he repeated the same defamation".

The Michael Popok ones are the only ones I watch now.
 
matthewr said:
I haven't watched the one you posted, but figure it's 15mins of Ben M. s-l-o-w-l-y reading from a court document or newspaper article to essentially say "EJC might sue again as he repeated the same defamation".
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Yes, it is exactly that!
 
Finnegan said:
The wider electorate of whom almost 75 million voted for him less than two and a half years ago. And that was after Pussygate.
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Yes but he wasn't facing the legal jeopardy he is now, all he did with CNN was further self incrimination in front of a self-selecting group. That solid base of his is relatively unchanged, but those are not the voters who will decide 2024.
 
I'd suggest the big story from Trump's town hall was the continued cratering of CNN's reputation more than anything to do with the 2024 presidential race.
 
Ponty said:
Just looked at the odds. Biden 13/8. Trump 12/5. Staggering really!
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It's a two horse race where margin of victory has been a few % for the last 30+ years and where there are a relatively small number of swing voters. In US election terms that makes Biden a pretty strong favourite I think.
 
droodzilla said:
Interesting thread about how Democrats can respond to Trump and his followers:

https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1656849258144997377

And an equally interesting reply:

https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/status/1657074630819971097
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Just like Labour here, they should really be much bolder. But let's not forget the less fashionable lessons from 2016, a significant portion of 'floaters' did not want Hilary Clinton. A large portion of Dem voters did not turn out. Still Trump did not win the popular vote and I don't think anyone is suggesting that was not his vote level high point.

However disturbing the level of support, it is amplified by focussing on his base all the time. The only people who are never going to accept who he really is.

I think Beau nails it here as to where his support actually is. The change is CNN's ownership, executive and attempt to grab Fox viewers is well documented. Incredibly naive imo, they have lost credibility with most and Fox viewers will never be CNN viewers in anything like the numbers needed to make up the audience they lose.

 
SteveS1 said:
Mandy Rice-Davies springs to mind.
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Well, you would say that. I think the point that is being missed is a convicted sex offender was given a platform to air his divisive filth. The argument that fascism cannot be rationally debated because it does not depend on rational argument applies. I don’t believe Trump is a fascist but everybody by now knows how he operates. He blusters, he talks over, he plays to the gallery and he is oblivious to having the incoherence of his argument exposed. He simply brushes it off and doesn’t care. His only motivation was the satisfaction of, not even his ego but his Id, in gaining a nationwide platform. And CNN gave him one. He played them like a fiddle.
 
Finnegan said:
Well, you would say that. I think the point that is being missed is a convicted sex offender was given a platform to air his divisive filth. The argument that fascism cannot be rationally debated because it does not depend on rational argument applies. I don’t believe Trump is a fascist but everybody by now knows how he operates. He blusters, he talks over, he plays to the gallery and he is oblivious to having the incoherence of his argument exposed. He simply brushes it off and doesn’t care. His only motivation was the satisfaction of, not even his ego but his Id, in gaining a nationwide platform. And CNN gave him one. He played them like a fiddle.
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I agree with you, as do most commentators. I could be wrong, but my guess is that in order of damage CNN will have come off worst - let's face it, all they did was platform a Trump rally and people are not blind to that. His base will not have moved of course, but anyone new to quite how bad he is might. Don't forget, he would have made equal play out of "they censored me and don't want you to hear the truth" type of bollocks had the offer been retracted. CNN's mistake was making the stupid offer in the first place on his terms.

The electorate demographics and age profile are working fast against the GOP, the desperate reactionary stuff and attempts at voter suppression is the result. They were never going to just roll over and accept it. I do agree that not enough neutrals have caught on to the fact that they have another civil war.
 
The thing that worries me is that the first word of the title of this thread, "decline", is wrong. In fact, Trump appears to be making a comeback and some polls place him ahead of Biden. I know that we have some time to go before the election, but if Trump's momentum continues to build, we could be looking at a hostile anti-democratic autocratic state, which, as this recent article in Der Spiegel points out, could mean a trade war and the loss of Ukraine:

https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...-trump-a-8668044c-f299-45a8-b6ea-ba3691cddb5f

This makes the Brexit business an especially great tragedy, because now is the time for Europe as a whole to stand together and prepare for the worst. For too long the Europeans have relied on the USA for defence, and, in that respect, Trump was right - they haven't been paying their way. They banked on the end of the Soviet Union leading to a general peace, so no need to buy the military expensive toys, and use the money for something actually useful. Nobody saw Putin and his bunch of grievances coming. They really need to prepare to shoulder the Ukraine burden alone. They need to go on at least a semi-war footing and start producing post haste the equipment that the Ukrainians need.
 
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matthewr said:
I've read/watched a few things on a similar theme recently -- essentially the Dems (and the media) approach Trump as a political / economic argument but his base approach it as a psychological argument.
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I view it as full-on ideological. Trump (and for that matter the UK clones Johnson and Farage) are the public figureheads for Steve Bannon’s take on Christian white supremacy and imperialism. Fascism by any other name. It is very much a global movement gradually infecting much of the west with connected parties and political groupings (Front National, AFD etc etc). There is IMHO no point arguing politely with fascists. We need to recognise them as exactly what they are, call them out, and use every possible method to stop them.

We are now at the stage where anti-fascists are being openly demonised along with all those who believe in equality, human rights and civil liberties etc (‘antifa’, ‘woke’ etc). The opposite of anti-fascist is not especially hard to decode, yet Trump and the rest of them will openly attack these voices. They know what they are and as time goes on they are increasingly prepared to say it out loud.
 
Tony L said:
I view it as full-on ideological.
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I don't find Trump or his base remotely ideological -- for me it's all grievance and animus and arguing on emotion rather than ideology or political logic. Bannon is different but he is the exception for me and much of Trump's base is exactly like him (angry, stupid and narcissistic).
 
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