Regulars here will be aware that I recently had a holiday in Italy in an attempt to learn the language. I did that, and had a great time. I can now carry out basic conversations and I have some idea as to how it works. Great. I know there are a few Italian born/resident people here and I need a bit of guidance on the tu/lei thing.
For the benefit of others here, Italian, like French, has 2 forms of "you". Familiar and formal. You use "tu" for people you know and "lei" (like "vous" in French) for formal situations. Turn up at a hotel and they will call you "lei" because this is respectful. It's like the English "How can I help you, Sir?"
French is very clear. I'm very familiar with the language and the customs around it. I know the tu/vous thing very well and they even have an expression where you ask someone you have only recently met "On peut tutoier?" which is permission to shift to the informal (tu/toi) and usually coindides with exchanging names. There's a general rule of thumb that if you don't know somepone's first name and you are not addressing a child then you use "vous". To do otherwise is like walking into a pub and having the barman call you "buddy" or your wife "darlin'". You might easily take offence.
Back to Italian: they don't have the same rule, or they interpret it differently. It is acceptable to say to someone you don't know "di dove sei?" (Where are you from?) and this is the informal "tu" form. Likewise you can walk into a shop and say "Avete arancia, per favori?" (Have you any oranges, please?" and again this is the "voi" (plural of "tu") form. You would never, ever do this in France. It's "vous" all the way in shops, bars, hotels etc. Even at work unless you know the person well and they are a peer.
So have I got the wrong end of the stick here or is there a slightly different interpretation in Italian?
For the benefit of others here, Italian, like French, has 2 forms of "you". Familiar and formal. You use "tu" for people you know and "lei" (like "vous" in French) for formal situations. Turn up at a hotel and they will call you "lei" because this is respectful. It's like the English "How can I help you, Sir?"
French is very clear. I'm very familiar with the language and the customs around it. I know the tu/vous thing very well and they even have an expression where you ask someone you have only recently met "On peut tutoier?" which is permission to shift to the informal (tu/toi) and usually coindides with exchanging names. There's a general rule of thumb that if you don't know somepone's first name and you are not addressing a child then you use "vous". To do otherwise is like walking into a pub and having the barman call you "buddy" or your wife "darlin'". You might easily take offence.
Back to Italian: they don't have the same rule, or they interpret it differently. It is acceptable to say to someone you don't know "di dove sei?" (Where are you from?) and this is the informal "tu" form. Likewise you can walk into a shop and say "Avete arancia, per favori?" (Have you any oranges, please?" and again this is the "voi" (plural of "tu") form. You would never, ever do this in France. It's "vous" all the way in shops, bars, hotels etc. Even at work unless you know the person well and they are a peer.
So have I got the wrong end of the stick here or is there a slightly different interpretation in Italian?