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Thorens TD-124/II restoration / upgrade

Hi Willie,

I managed to get mine off without damaging it.

First I removed the speed selector knob for better access then used a solvent to soften the adhesive. I think white spirit but something like WD40 would likely work well and be safe. I then used a thin strip of plastic (something like a strip of an old credit card) which I then gently worked until the label. If the chassis on yours is to be repainted anyway you could use a sharp blade.

Best of luck.

Regards, Mike
 
Never needed to do it, what is it glued on with? My first thought would be a heat gun.

PS Not wanting to spam-up the thread, but I do have a pretty tidy MkII chassis up for grabs if you wanted to retain original paint. I ended up buying a spare when I was getting totally OCD about step-pulley bushings etc.
 
These decks are a sheer joy to own and well worth the effort to get them in top working order:

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Bit of a diversion here but @Tony L I just got this RVG original US pressing and it does sound quite different from the BN80/Classic/TonePoet/Acoustic Sounds reissues. Definitely punchy and exciting like you said.
 
Tony L said:
Cool, I bet that is a superb sounding pressing. I love every RVG-stamped Impulse I have, which is far too few.
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It’s only my second and my first mono. My other one is New Thing at Newport, which is live which means it’s perhaps not indicative of the Englewood Cliffs sound? Luckily I found this one in the wild yesterday for £17! Bit of a bargain.
 
I’ve just given my TD-124 idler a very good clean with MG Chemicals 408C Rubber Renew. This is nasty stuff, a highly toxic solvent with all manner of warnings attached. I did it outside in the yard wearing surgical gloves. It seems very effective and removes the hard ‘sheen’ that rubber drive parts can pick up over decades of use. After a very good going over all surfaces, especially the edge, the idler seems far fresher and rather more supple. How long this lasts remains to be seen. I did both my idlers (I wanted to test first on the spare one before doing the one in use, though to be honest I haven’t ranked them, they are both used and pretty decent). As such I have one in the deck and one outside to keep an eye on. This stuff seems widely regarded in the tape deck community for pinch rollers, idlers etc and seems to be safe. It seems to get similar results to machining or sanding the edge of a tired idler but in a far less destructive manner. Recommended, but please heed the safety warnings! The duster and gloves I used are outside in the snow!
 
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Nagraboy said:
I’m using the Audio Silente idler wheel. Been wondering about giving the original another try.
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It would make for an interesting comparison. As stated earlier (either up this thread or on the other) I’ve been a little skeptical of the Audio Silente design as it looks to be too much wheel and not enough tyre to my eyes. I have no doubt it is stunningly well engineered and executed, I just feel the rubber area should be much fatter which should help reduce rumble so I’ve so far held of buying one. It is certainly not the way, Thorens, Garrard, Lenco or anyone else designed an idler back in the day. That said Audio Silente is my favourite aftermarket 124 (and other) spares source. Always beautifully made stuff at a very fair price for the engineering involved. There is a lot of it in my deck (bushings, rubber mushrooms etc).

As I’m of the ‘low mass is better’ mindset I have fought against rumble that would almost certainly be damped-out by a high-mass. I’m always interested in anything that makes the deck quieter through good engineering. My motor build is good and quiet, the Hanze springs and Mike’s blue belt make for a very quiet drive chain. I’d love an idler of the original design but with rubber of the quality Garrard used on the 301 & 401, which I do feel is better, or maybe has just aged better, than the Thorens wheels. I’ve had several original 124 idlers over the years and they are all much of a muchness, i.e. I suspect mine are at the ‘good’ end of the scale. I’ve replaced my idler bushing with the Audio Silente part so it isn’t loose and rocking on the post.
 
I suspect (no real info mind you) that the manner in which Audio Silente designed the idler wheels is to take advantage of ready made O-rings.

Molding rubber, and also machining / finishing rubber on a lathe is not for the faint of heart, nor cheap.
 
InSides said:
Molding rubber, and also machining / finishing rubber on a lathe is not for the faint of heart, nor cheap.
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I’m sure you are right. There is however certainly a market, there are a lot of 124s surviving all across the world. IIRC Schopper did make an idler for a while, though it was very expensive (£hundreds) and allegedly no quieter than a half decent original.

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Here’s my spare one next to a 301 idler. I’d love to try a 124 idler made from the Garrard rubber. I know its just a totally subjective non-scientific opinion, but I do feel the Garrard rubber is more supple and of a nicer quality.

PS Initial impressions are treating the idler has helped. I suspect the ‘Rubber Renew’ will become a part of my servicing procedure. I’ll give the idler a rub down whenever I give the pulleys a clean and top up the oil.
 
True replicas may be prohibitively expensive.

As with many manufacturing techniques, companies at any time use materials that they feel are the most appropriate (for the specific time) to solve a particular issue. That rubber was, most likely, used for another process of another industry allowing Garrard / Thorens to buy in bulk, and buy cheap. Meaning that the rubber itself may be easy to get, but it may be impossible to get, based on whereever else it was used at scale.

For people here using the Audio Silente (and similar type idlers) I would suggest you try multiple types of O-rings, even slightly undersized, and definitely various materials.

I do not use it personally, but my DIY idler / flywheel assembly relies on the same principle, and swapping out O-rings did wonders for keeping rumble in check (*).

(*) But not eliminate all of it - that is where some of the "magic" comes from.
 
Listening to the 124 now and it is sounding superb (it usually does these days). I’m pretty sure treating the idler has indeed brought a slightly better noise floor. Nothing night and day, maybe a couple of db. It is certainly running as quietly as it ever has, likely quieter, and I did nothing else, e.g. didn’t clean the belt-drive bits at all. The only negative is much to my surprise there is a bit of a chemical smell from it. Remember, I did this outside in the back yard. Only the treated idler came into this room at the other end of the house. The duster and cloth are still outside in the yard! I’m sure it will subside, and it just isn’t something that bothers me, but I thought I’d mention it. It is clearly rather more than a solvent that cleans and then evaporates, some aspect must permeate the rubber to some degree. Even more reason to do it outside! I suspect doing it inside would really stink the house up.
 
Tony L said:
IIRC Schopper did make an idler for a while, though it was very expensive (£hundreds) and allegedly no quieter than a half decent original.
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I still have one of those expensive Schopper idler wheels - looks lovely, but is deafeningly noisy. A friend tested its Shore Hardness and it is far harder than a genuine Thorens wheel. Also, Schopper did not use natural rubber, but instead some form of polyurethane, machined to shape rather than moulded like an original. I'm genuinely puzzled why Schopper considered this thing ready for sale - surely they listened to one in a TD-124?
 
Interesting/disappointing. FWIW I’d also expect an original Thorens idler to be harder today than when it was made 50-60 years ago.
 
Shuggie said:
machined to shape rather than moulded like an original.
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They may have chosen the type of rubber based on its ability to be machined. Moulds for a small scale operation are prohibitively expensive.

I remember Rega made a very big deal about the molds for one of their belts - I forget what belt but I remember the talk behind the molds. Mind you, there is something there. Most o-rings should not be used as belts as there is a distinct joint when they are made out of cord. The more expensive ones are molded and that is only feasible since they are being sold in the millions.

Also, it is problematic to assume that modern replacements for past items are necessarilly better. :(
 
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