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DIY bolt question

richardg

richardg

Admonishtrator
I'm building a ceiling in my garage that will also double as storage in the eaves, and so I will be occasionally walking across it. The garage has breezeblock walls on one side and bricks on the other sides. Does anyone know what thickness bolts I shoud go for in the supporting framework through the breezeblocks?

Any other tips would be most welcome, as I hope to avoid it collapsing when I walk across it,
 
M12 are used to bolt timber to steelwork for floor joist supports so M12 should be fine for your needs here.
 
Just watch out for your block material. If it's solid, happy days. But if it's scrappy cinderblock with the solidity of fagash, watch it.
 
As Steve says, it is likely more important to consider how any fixings will 'fix' into the block, and the actual type of block.
I would be thinking chemical fixings, but have no direct experience. Worth looking at:
https://www.rawlplug.com/en/find-product
And select the type of block material?
 
If I understand this correctly the answer is 0.

Roof/ceiling timbers are not secured to the walls that they rest on. In the case of roofing timbers, they just drop onto what is called a wall plate - a length of timber that stretches the length of the wall, spreading the load, so what the wall is made of is irelevant under any circumstances that are legal.

Again, if I understand correctly, 9mm shuttering ply nailed across the roof timbers, standard 16" centres, will easily take your walking on it and light loads. 12mm will make you feel safer and not bow unless heavily loaded.

I would not secure any timbers to the walls - movement would eventually rip the masonry apart in some way or another.
 
Reading again - have you explained properly?

Normal construction - roof timbers onto wall plate, onto supporting walls, load-bearing surface of (floor of) loft space onto upper side of roof timbers.
 
I think what Richard is trying to do is build a sort of mezzanine floor/ceiling into an existing garage which will likely make the option of loading the ceiling onto the top of the walls difficult or even impossible without removal of at least part of the roof. His alternative therefore is to attach the timbers to the walls. If bolting through or using anchor bolts then M12 would be my preference. However some of the above posts make a good case for the likes of Fischer fixings or resin bonded fixings. Richard, maybe you can give us all a bit more detail on the design idea and the nature of the materials. For example are the bricks solid and flush faced or rustic/in poor repair. Same with the block, is it concrete or Thermalite, what condition is it in etc.
 
No matter the design/intent, I can see no need or reason to mechanically couple anything at all to any wall. Actually, quite the opposite - avoid at all costs.
 
Vinny said:
No matter the design/intent, I can see no need or reason to mechanically couple anything at all to any wall. Actually, quite the opposite - avoid at all costs.
Click to expand...

Don't take this the wrong way but it's not exactly uncommon. As an extreme example my floating staircase is bolted to the wall and that's its only support hence the term floating. There's nothing wrong with the concept, it's the execution that matters.
 
We are talking roof/floor timbers, not stairs.

I have never seen anything in a loft/attic secured to any wall and never seen anything suggested, anywhere, that anything should be, beyond plaster on the ceiling mating with walls under the roof/floor timbers. I can see no logical reason to deviate from that.

Below bedroom ceiling level - another case entirely.

The OP needs to expalin what they are trying to do, more clearly.
 
tiggers said:
I think what Richard is trying to do is build a sort of mezzanine floor/ceiling into an existing garage which will likely make the option of loading the ceiling onto the top of the walls difficult or even impossible without removal of at least part of the roof. His alternative therefore is to attach the timbers to the walls. If bolting through or using anchor bolts then M12 would be my preference. However some of the above posts make a good case for the likes of Fischer fixings or resin bonded fixings. Richard, maybe you can give us all a bit more detail on the design idea and the nature of the materials. For example are the bricks solid and flush faced or rustic/in poor repair. Same with the block, is it concrete or Thermalite, what condition is it in etc.
Click to expand...
Im basically building a frame inside the garage and boarding the top of it. So, the frame needs attaching to the walls in some way.
 
I was expecting something like this - as Tigger says, it'll be a simple mezzanine, nothing rocket science about it for a DIY type that is ok with tools.
All the suggestions above as noted, would be fine, taking into consideration the wall / block type.

PS - a laser level for marking both walls out will be a 'godsend'!
89761184_2487655828166116_6329132900524490752_n.jpg
 
Ok if it was me I would build the frame exactly as you described and screw it to the brick and block with suitable length concrete screws, but what Vinny is getting at is the wall is significantly weaker at the top as it has no weight on it other than the roof so.... what I would do is run 4x2 C24 timbers down the wall from the frame bearers, bracket them to the frame bearers (or screw through from above) and then screw them to the wall with concrete screws at several points below. They don't need to go to the floor although they could (if damp isn't an issue). That way you are transferring the load down the wall to the parts of the wall under more compression and hence stronger.

Concrete screws

Make sure you use the right size of drill bit.
 
tiggers said:
Ok if it was me I would build the frame exactly as you described and screw it to the brick and block with suitable length concrete screws, but what Vinny is getting at is the wall is significantly weaker at the top as it has no weight on it other than the roof so.... what I would do is run 4x2 C24 timbers down the wall from the frame bearers, bracket them to the frame bearers (or screw through from above) and then screw them to the wall with concrete screws at several points below. They don't need to go to the floor although they could (if damp isn't an issue). That way you are transferring the load down the wall to the parts of the wall under more compression and hence stronger.

Concrete screws

Make sure you use the right size of drill bit.
Click to expand...

These are excellent, and easy to do / cheap.
Just a word of warning - DO NOT use impact drivers for setting them - they very easily rip the thread right out of the block, much better to use a drill/driver that is powerful enough. This is from bitter experience!
An SDS drill for making the holes will save much grief.
 
Sonority said:
These are excellent, and easy to do / cheap.
Just a word of warning - DO NOT use impact drivers for setting them - they very easily rip the thread right out of the block, much better to use a drill/driver that is powerful enough. This is from bitter experience!
An SDS drill for making the holes will save much grief.
Click to expand...
Good call on the impact driver, I should have pointed that out.
 
Sonority said:
I was expecting something like this - as Tigger says, it'll be a simple mezzanine, nothing rocket science about it for a DIY type that is ok with tools.
All the suggestions above as noted, would be fine, taking into consideration the wall / block type.

PS - a laser level for marking both walls out will be a 'godsend'!
89761184_2487655828166116_6329132900524490752_n.jpg
Click to expand...
Like this but with vertical pillars in each corner and halfway along each wall
 
Sonority said:
These are excellent, and easy to do / cheap.
Just a word of warning - DO NOT use impact drivers for setting them - they very easily rip the thread right out of the block, much better to use a drill/driver that is powerful enough. This is from bitter experience!
An SDS drill for making the holes will save much grief.
Click to expand...
I bought a masonry type hammer drill last night, is that what you meant?
 
No, thats a different beast entirely.
They work, to a degree, but the amount of holes you will be drilling, it becomes hard work.
Hiring an SDS will be the option IMO.
I have one, but use it a lot.
Many brands out there no need to go bonkers money for what you are doing, or, as I said, hire one for a few days.
The bits bayonet into the drill for easy changing.
This is what I have for light duty (as what you will be doing)
https://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-hr2630-3-3kg-electric-sds-plus-drill-240v/8602j
 
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