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Upgrading the DAC

FWIW... In my experience DACs do sound different. You should demo before you buy. It's the best way to avoid a blunder, usually if you liked it at demo, it'll be even better back home. Hype can sometimes raise your expectations very high, do be careful not to expect the music to somehow become massively improved. Look for competence first then consider what it adds or detracts from what you like in a sound signature.

The best Hifi component is the one that grows on you... If you take my meaning.
 
Tl;Dr - source matters for dacs


Earlier today I thought I might try and save a little money as I have Spotify, Tidal and Roon subscriptions and the idea of cancelling one or more seemed attractive.

My main system consists of an Allo DigiOne Signature feeding a Qutest via spdif into a Luxman 505ux II which drives my ProAc D20Rs. For completeness there’s also an LP12 hanging around.

I connected my MacBook Pro (usually kept in my study running Roon server) into the Qutest via USB. I left the Pi/Allo running RoPiee connected to the Qutest via spdif.

I started by using something very simple as a test track which I know really well - Aha’s Take on Me .. the acoustic vh1 version.


First up was Spotify over USB into Qutest.

It was ok. Sounded decent. But didn’t really draw me in. Definitely not what I’ve grown accustomed to ‘feeling’. Not much air or subtlety. Didn’t reach the end of the song !

Then I ran Tidal via Roon on MacBook. Again connected via usb into Qutest.

Much better. More nuanced, instruments weightier, more space, bigger soundstage, etc. Probably not unexpected when moving from compressed to uncompressed formats. Pretty good overall. Very listenable.

Finally I ran Tidal viaRoon into Allo over Ethernet. And Allo into Qutest via spdif.

Ha ha ha. Pretty bloody ridiculous. Better sound sound stage and so much more nuance and detail. I think perhaps the uninitiated might not notice but it’s there alright. The difference is really quite quite crazy with the additional finesse. It’s subtle but when your ears are dialled in the subtlety turns the music into something you can’t switch off. And that impact is very tangible and not subtle at all.

It was fun to be able to do all of this without unplugging any cables and know it’s the same dac output into the amp so it’s all level matched (well at least the Tidal renditions are).

So no money saved and back to square one. But interesting that the Mac into the Qutest usb does definitely not produce the same results as the Allo via spdif.


Don’t know why. Don’t really care. Just enjoying the Allo
 
karlsushi said:
I went 2Qute to Qutest to Pontus II.

The Qutest is a noticeably better DAC than the 2Qute in terms of how it resolves musical detail.

The only benefit I think the Pontus has over the Qutest is bass presence/impact, which I assume to be down to the better power supply. In terms of transparency/detail/believability, I think they are very close, so on reflection, I think the Qutest is probably the better value option.

I have to say though, that it is hard to forget you're listening to a digital device within this kind of price range, even with some of the supposedly more natural sounding R2R DACs. Having now moved onwards up the chain, my experience is that in order to get to the point of a proper authentic analogue kind of sound from a DAC, you have to spend a bit more.

You may therefore find that a second-hand unit at the top of your budget is a better way to go. There are so many out there, but I still maintain that the Chord range is as good as anything at any particular price point.

For the record, I now own a DAVE.
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From 2qute to qutest to Pontus II and then the big leap to DAVE. Nice.

I agree with your suggestion of spending most money on the DAC which means getting used at the top of one's budget. FWIW I own Chord qbd76 and Luxman DA-06. Both good as they fit into different systems to get to the sound that I prefer. The Chord to me is a more capable DAC with slightly better detail retrieval, airiness and bass response.

I do not have experience with other cheaper Chord DACs and my comment may ruffle some feathers here. I believe the Achille's heel of the Chord DACs (with the exception of DAVE) is in their inability of taking a full sized power cord. In other words the internal power supply of the DAC is a compromise.
 
Mike Hanson said:
I've done the direct comparison between the Denafrips Pontus II and the Chord Qutest. With the Chord's own power supply, it's far short of the Denafrips. Using a better iFi SMPS supply helps things, but it's still significantly below. However, using an Alo Shanti linear supply with the Qutest gets it very close to the Denafrips. However, the Pontus II is still the superior DAC.
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Great intel!
 
Alex S said:
Why? I'm genuinely interested since Qutest is my obvious uprgrade path for my DAC no. 2: 2Qute.
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Probably because there isn't very much in it and so hearing it is system dependent - the output level was changed (selectable) between the two, so too the p/s from 12V to 5V. I downsized from a Naim nDac with Teddy XPS and the newer firmware and always found the Chord Dac rather disappointing. Support from Chord is excellent by the way.
 
Qutest to me had a notable jump in air and micro-detail over the 2Qute (both with standard power supplies). Especially in the top end.

I found 95% of stuff sounded better because of it, but it could make the odd track/album feel like it was missing a bit of familiar cohesion - but a recording issue not the DAC though. If that makes sense.
 
To stir a few worms - I use a Sean Jacobs DC2 LPSU on my 2Qute, mainly because I had it already. Chord with the Cambridge CXC is quite satisfying but my go-to is the Densen (as a transport) with the Audial. I'm also reassured by a proper BNC connection at both ends.
 
I had a 2qute. It transformed the sound of my Arcam CD machine and rekindled my interest in improving my sound system. I did try a different power supply - a large lead acid battery. I could hear no difference so I assumed Chord’s expertise with power supplies matches their prowess with DACs.

After a through upgrade to the rest of my system I revisited the DAC . The qutest was better but not by that much, however the tt2 hit the spot. I am not planning to ‘upgrade’ the power supply but may demo the m scaler.
 
Alex S said:
To stir a few worms - I use a Sean Jacobs DC2 LPSU on my 2Qute, mainly because I had it already. Chord with the Cambridge CXC is quite satisfying but my go-to is the Densen (as a transport) with the Audial. I'm also reassured by a proper BNC connection at both ends.
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Chord 2Qute and Qutest have a LOT more in the tank with a quality power supply. I use a Plixir Elite BDC with their Statement DC cable. Massive chasm of improvement over the already-good Allo Shanti. Like getting an all new DAC. Beat a stock TT2 in an in-home demo, by a meaningful margin.
 
gavreid said:
The RME ADI 2 - fs is a bargain if you don't want the USB interface, all of the fancy extras and higher than 192 kHz.

https://www.rme-audio.com/ADI-2-FS.html
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I have that model - tis damn good :)

It had some flexibility the pricier one didn't and the headphone amp was the same (according to RME at the time)
No USB input was the only downside for me, the equaliser, screen and endless fiddling I was more than happy to do without ....
 
My daughter uses the RME as a preamp (and dac obviously). The only ‘fiddling’ is turning it on or off. I took one look at the manual and gave it to her.
 
leroyd said:
The Gustard R26 is the latest R2R DAC to hit the scene and is getting some rave reviews
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I have one of these waiting for me when I get home (in a bloody months time...). I'm ratcheting my cognitive bias up to 11 in anticipation of it being awesome!
I do however expect it may actually be quite good... or will I just be imagining it??? Maybe, maybe not, but TBH, who REALLY cares if the end result is me liking it?
 
Greyandy said:
I have one of these waiting for me when I get home (in a bloody months time...). I'm ratcheting my cognitive bias up to 11 in anticipation of it being awesome!
I do however expect it may actually be quite good... or will I just be imagining it??? Maybe, maybe not, but TBH, who REALLY cares if the end result is me liking it?
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Just watched the review of this DAC. Looks very interesting. Do you know if there are any UK dealers/distributers?
 
DavetheBass said:
Just watched the review of this DAC. Looks very interesting. Do you know if there are any UK dealers/distributers?
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No UK distributers as far as I am aware but can be bought via Amazon so you can return within 30 days. Annoyingly mine turned up within a week of ordering it despite Amazon indicating 3 to 4 weeks so the return window will have closed by the time I get home (I'm working abroad until just before Christmas).
It's definitely the new kid on the block and seems to be leaving reviewers struggling for superlatives. There are quite a few of them out in the wild now and reports from various FB groups and forums are all very positive. I'm yet to hear mine but will report back when I have had a few weeks with it in the system.
 
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