ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Just watched that (and the other two).
Part 3 now up and active. I’m going to watch it now in case it vanishes again!
The Labour Party is racist.
Just watched that (and the other two).
Part 3 now up and active. I’m going to watch it now in case it vanishes again!
That you state as fact Labour won’t go through with its promises is what prevents any discussion, not that there is much to discuss about it. You have an opinion of Labour from a hard left position, other people take a less fundamental view and understand Labour can’t do anything until the party replaces the tories. Priority One is winning the next GE.I can only conclude that that would be your takeaway from literally any encounter with left wing criticism of a centrist party, because it’s not really based on anything that’s actually been said.
To be clear, my position is that the best we can hope for is that the Labour Party replace the Conservatives and that pressure is brought to bear on them to make good on their progressive promises. For that to happen it needs to be widely understood that they straight up do not want to make good on their progressive promises. You might well disagree with that sentiment but we never really to the point that it can be discussed, because someone always presses the Lesser Evil button, or the Left Wing Puritan button or whatever.
Replacing one institutionally racist party with another is not a step forward
Just watched that (and the other two).
The Labour Party is racist.
It’s being aired immediately after their wildlife documentary about bears shitting in the woods.So is the Tory Party. Where is the 3 part AJ series on that?
Unusual level of honesty from a "senior Labour figure" here:
To be honest, this is infuriating, and verges on gaslighting.Because my takeaway from this thread is that it's more important to many on the left to
- maintain ideological purity
- deride (demonstrate one's moral superiority to) the bourgeoisie / centrist dad etc
- demonstrate how much they understand the plight of the "common man"
- propose that nothing will change until the economic system (ism) is completely changed (but no realistic mechanism for radical change is proposed)
than it is to get on with the messy but necessary business of compromise, coalition building, and finding common goals that will enable a center left party to be elected and make some positive changes in society.
100% correct. Rotten through and through.Just watched that (and the other two).
The Labour Party is racist.
To be honest, this is infuriating, and verges on gaslighting.
What do you think many on the left did during the New Labour years? I wouldn't say I was on the left at the time, but I'm sure that many who would hung on in there, got behind the leader and campaigned for the party. In other words, they compromised. The Iraq war was a breaking point for some, but I continued to vote for Labour - it's just the way I was wired.
Cut to the Corbyn years and, LOL, no suckers, compromise only works one way! The right of the party undermined Corbyn before he was even elected leader and barely relented for the four years he led the party. Their behaviour in that period was cynical, dishonest and fundamentally wicked. Expecting bad people to do good things is a fool's errand.
So, instead of this moralising nonsense, why not ask yourself why a reasonable chap like me who has voted Labour all his life and done a fair bit of campaigning for the party would now rather poke my eyes out with a blunt stick than put a cross in the Labour box.
If Labour do decide to support PR I will vote for them next time. Not because I really want to, or believe that PR is a magic bullet, but because it will enable smaller parties to thrive and might give me something that's worth voting for in future.
If not, I'll give Labour a miss next time. And if they win without my vote and do some decent things with that power they crave so badly, I might return to the fold.
If Labour do decide to support PR I will vote for them next time. Not because I really want to, or believe that PR is a magic bullet, but because it will enable smaller parties to thrive and might give me something that's worth voting for in future.
Not in Sweden and Italy it doesn't.PR kills Tories.
Sweden’s Social-Democrats have been the largest party more or less continuously since the 1930s. They have generally* been in power (PM etc). PR has served them quite well. The Conservatives there just get to pick up some crumbs: a bit like Labour in Britain.Not in Sweden and Italy it doesn't.
I've explained my position and I accept its downsides (as it happens I'm in a Lab/LD marginal).If you live in a competitive constituency and do not vote tactically then you risk enabling more years of Tory destruction.
I'm not sure it will but, even if it does, it's just the beginning of the revitalisation of democracy that is needed. Another would be the dissolution of the coalition currently known as the Labour Party. Add to that wholesale constitutional reform and overhaul of the media... etc. PR can be the start of that process but it's clearly not sufficient (and I'm not even sure it's strictly necessary but I'm willing to throw the dice on it).Surely the realisation PR will end the Tories time in power forever is all the magic bullet we need. PR kills Tories. They know this and will do absolutely everything in their power to fight it.