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Ukraine V

For clarity, conscientious objection should be respected but that’s obviously not (as far as I can see) the case in Russia. It is though true that polling demonstrated overwhelming public support for the ‘special operation’ against the Ukrainian people.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/...g-russian-public-opinion-on-ukraine-pub-87803

Given this is the case I don’t think anyone can assume that everyone trying to flee Russia is a conscientious objector- many will be cheerleaders and supporters of the Z action movie and it’s just that they were happy to cheer the action heroes but god forbid they would have to join the cast. A quick look at their mobile phones would find out which category of objector they were and if the phone is new and they’ve never used the internet before, they’d have a job to do to convince their host country.

Of course sons of the Nomenklatura won’t be queuing at the border to get out- they’ll have got off a flight in Dubai by now.
 
To have a functioning democracy there has to be the right to demonstrate and to use it - i don't see much of that going on here against this sh------er we have in 'government'.
 
You are correct, Ian. The Soviet Union collapsed. Russians have a better track record and appetite for what you’re suggesting than most.

They also know that 20,000,000 died in WW2, 10,000,000 of them troops (compared to UK 350,000), largely under equipped, under prepared and thrown at the front. That’s what’s happening now but the difference is it’s not even to fight an enemy.

All Russians I know, probably as many as PFM’s commentators put together, are disgusted by this war and see it as a conflict against their own, many having Ukrainian blood ties.

They are also against Putin. He will fall. Polls are rigged in Russia, so is the media, as if Dec doesn’t know this. But all populations have their share of idiots. The same demographic that voted Brexit here supports Putin there but not for much longer.
 
I think a lot of the history of the Great Patriotic War has been cynically used to shore up a myth of Russian national identity which has helped Putin and his ilk to amass so much power. tbf the same is true of Little Englanders and the Churchill myth, Russians are in no way unique in that. And a lot of the blame for Russian cynicism about democracy is no doubt down to the way Western corporate interests colluded in and encouraged theft and corruption on a vast scale in the immediate post-Soviet period (I have some personal experience of that, having spent time working in Ekaterinburg on a number of World Bank funded IT projects in the very early 90s, all of which were of precisely zero benefit to ordinary people but made a small clique very rich indeed).

But a revolt from below needs to come. Otherwise post-Putin Russia will be the same old corrupt authoritarianism, just with a change of personnel, diminished military ambitions, and vast reparations to somehow pay.
 
Very hard to know what the real support for Putin's war was within Russia. Even before the Ukraine fight back.
 
We can all use a laugh today and this made me unexpectedly lol

VZNVjcn.png
 
For clarity, conscientious objection should be respected but that’s obviously not (as far as I can see) the case in Russia. It is though true that polling demonstrated overwhelming public support for the ‘special operation’ against the Ukrainian people.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/...g-russian-public-opinion-on-ukraine-pub-87803

Given this is the case I don’t think anyone can assume that everyone trying to flee Russia is a conscientious objector- many will be cheerleaders and supporters of the Z action movie and it’s just that they were happy to cheer the action heroes but god forbid they would have to join the cast. A quick look at their mobile phones would find out which category of objector they were and if the phone is new and they’ve never used the internet before, they’d have a job to do to convince their host country.

Of course sons of the Nomenklatura won’t be queuing at the border to get out- they’ll have got off a flight in Dubai by now.

People do change their minds when shit gets real. And shit just got real.
 
We can all use a laugh today and this made me unexpectedly lol

VZNVjcn.png
Presumably Ms.Pamfilova ( great name btw) has had a Damascene conversion since she was “Chair of the Presdiential Committee for Civil Society and Human Rights”? Clearly a woman not to be trifled with:

CvMbTcm.jpg


Sarah Palin on steroids.
 
Far from the first - also enlistment officers shot.

imagine this in America which is not short of domestic weapons!
There are many reasons America is difficult to invade. Even if you get there, the most mild-mannered household will probably have a little gun ‘just in case’. They carry guns like I (used) to tote a condom.
just to add, I’m not feeling light-hearted about this situation. Black humour is for survival as much as amusement.
 
Presumably Ms.Pamfilova ( great name btw) has had a Damascene conversion since she was “Chair of the Presdiential Committee for Civil Society and Human Rights”? Clearly a woman not to be trifled with:

CvMbTcm.jpg


Sarah Palin on steroids.
That’s screensaver material! I reckon you’d find that image on Max Mosley’s phone( no rest for the wicked, even when dead;))
 
Remember a ytube video way back claiming the various states of the federation could rebel. Many have grievances but more importantly have structures of government to make a break from Moscow realistic. The pull of being resource-rich but relatively powerless over decades could become overwhelming. You just can’t tell because any cooperation between federal states would have to be below the radar.
 
I wonder what’s happening to Russian Dimitre who used to post in support of the special military operation?

Now that Putin announced mobilisation, I would have expected him to promptly enlist for dutiful service. He could then take an active role in thwarting the efforts of the “mr. president artist”.

In all seriousness, I hope he came to his senses and maybe he can come back to post. Would like to explore further just how much his mind was obviously blown by Zelensky being similarly talented in the arts: comedy and television.
 
Now that Putin announced mobilisation, I would have expected him to promptly enlist for dutiful service. He could then take an active role in thwarting the efforts of the “mr. president artist”.

In all seriousness, I hope he came to his senses and maybe he can come back to post. Would like to explore further just how much his mind was obviously blown by Zelensky being similarly talented in the arts: comedy and television.
I think he was a decent guy! He illustrates a perceptual issue with how most of us here see Russia, ie. “surely the people will rise up against Putin”. We underestimate his domestic support at our peril.
 


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