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Linn LP12s – Fire away!

How did the sound change? More detail etc?

I fitted the top plate and sub chassis at the same time so I can't isolate what did what. But the effect was big. Very big for the money it cost.

Overall I'd say it was cleaner and clearer. Less hash, a lot less hash. The deck has an AT OC9 MLII on it and it was quite fierce at the top end. Afterwards it was very clean and well behaved.

Did it alter the sound? Yes, otherwise I'm not sure I'd see the point ;O) But I'd say it was wholly for the better. The deck was more tuneful and enjoyable. Even my wife commented on how nice it sounded and she doesn't usually notice these things.

The top Rega arms are still neutral but not in the dull way the older, cheaper arms where accused of. They keep the neutrality but add detail and dynamics. Very nice arms. The newer budget arms are also better than the older arms. As you might expect.

I don't see couloration as a problem myself. In fact I think a system needs it to give you a lively, life-like sound. Too clean is too boring.
 
Maybe the pulsating drag interreaction with the direct drive servo is the reason for the terrible speed performance of the Technics?
There’s an article in the Linn Magazine written back when the Valhalla was the top power supply that said:

The fact that the Sondek motor’s speed is fixed also has benefits. Many other makers use servo/feedback mechanisms to correct speed variations. Linn’s succinct answer is that the only certain thing about servo systems is that they’re never at the right speed and always searching for it within successive approximations.

 
It’s probably the case that no turntable is ever at the right speed, what’s required is the most accurate speed stability without introducing noise due to hunting.
 
Doesn't that mean it's had a few? Double negative?

As in "I'm not gonna work on Maggie's farm no more"?
 
When Linn introduced the Keel and Ekos SE they referred to them as the “SE upgrades”. Maybe they should have been named the “SG upgrades”, the SG standing for sour grapes.
 
When Linn introduced the Keel and Ekos SE they referred to them as the “SE upgrades”. Maybe they should have been named the “SG upgrades”, the SG standing for sour grapes.

Lawyers for Gibson might need consulting if you want to call anything 'SG' - not sure if Touraj M ever got a letter from them after his turntable came out...
 
In which case don't buy a Radikal which would appear to be a servo system which only monitors speed once every 1.8 seconds. Couple that with a stretchy belt driving a heavy platter constrained by wobbly springs and you have a system which theoretically would amplify hunting by an order of magnitude at least.
The whole point of the radikal is that although it is a servo system it’s a very slow loop, whereas the technics has a fast acting servo, potentially fast enough to hunt at a speed within the audio range.
 
It always gives me the jitters when Edmund brags about the speed of the Mober DC controller, either he doesn't understand and fortunately the person that developed the speed control algorithm does or there are potential issues there! Measure more often by all means, but the speed control either needs to be above or below the audible range with care taken by someone with a lot of control systems experience.
 
Let us say you are 100% correct, are 100Hz adjustments (this is what I have read Edmund claim) going to be more or less audible than say sub 10Hz adjustments, all other things being equal?

The more rapid the response the more likely you will get overshoot. Unless you are going to try to respond to musical variations, at which point control rule of thumb of 10 times the highest frequency would apply, so let us say 200 kHz adjustments, needing some pretty cool speed measurement attempts on something doing 33 1/3 rpm ... nah you don't want it in the audible band, you don't want it as fast as possible, you probably want it critically damped and below audible.
 
To some extent the speed of the control loop is limited by the mechanical systems ability to change state.

I you wanted to make a system optimally bad you’d directly connect a high torque motor to a low mass platter and then turn the control up to 11.
 
Indeed, I didn't intend to suggest on a belt driven beast, or indeed any turntable, it would be wise to try to speed control at 200k, it is a nuts idea, but makes more sense than doing it on the audible band ... I suspect the Mober doesn't really act at 100Hz anyway, that is just some odd attempt at sales spin across a language barrier?!
 
I don't care how well a turntable measures or what system it uses. I only care about whether or not I like the music it makes.

The speed stability on the RP10 was very noticeably better than my last LP12. It was very good, I'd say it was up there with idlers no problem. However, the LP12 conveys subtle timing shifts and dynamics better than the Rega does and is more involving to listen to music on. And that's more important to me.
 
I don't care how well a turntable measures or what system it uses. I only care about whether or not I like the music it makes.

The speed stability on the RP10 was very noticeably better than my last LP12. It was very good, I'd say it was up there with idlers no problem. However, the LP12 conveys subtle timing shifts and dynamics better than the Rega does and is more involving to listen to music on. And that's more important to me.

“The music it makes”. No more needs to be said.

That is what separates the music lovers … we should choose what we just bloody well ENJOY the most!
 


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