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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

In theory MMT can apply but it hasn't been applied in practise (per my answer to doctorf's pertinent question). The UK and USA are currently seen as neoliberal by Team MMT (as is the EU). I assume Canada and Aus would be seen in the same light.

PS Why do you call yourself Super Bigote?
What’s the question?
 
On the Labour right's anti-union stance, here's John McTernan (former advisor to Tony Blair), writing in The Telegraph in 2016:

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There's a nice story about the above piece in the leaked Labour document that prompted the Forde Inquiry:

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There are plenty of people like McTernan in the Labour Party - Christ knows why.
I’ve just read the wiki page about this bloke and I doubt there are plenty more like him in the Labour party, I doubt there are many like him anywhere.

You won’t like it, drood, but how about some names of people in the Labour party that are just like this bloke? Half a dozen wouldn’t be ‘plenty’ but I’d like to read about them anyway.

As an aside, I don’t get this bit from the wiki entry..
In August 2017 McTernan joined the Labour Party left-wing pressure group Momentum, set up to support Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. McTernan had previously been a critic of Momentum and of Corbyn.[27]

How and why was he allowed to join? Who makes that decision?

Source: wiki entry
 
In theory MMT can apply but it hasn't been applied in practise (per my answer to doctorf's pertinent question). The UK and USA are currently seen as neoliberal by Team MMT (as is the EU). I assume Canada and Aus would be seen in the same light.

PS Why do you call yourself Super Bigote?

You are misunderstanding what MMT is. It is not a policy but a depiction of how the monetary economy works in an economy where the government is the sole currency issuer. The understanding of MMT has implications for policy choice but it is not the policies themselves, which may be left or right wing in nature. The point about these countries is that the political leaders and the media are, almost to a man, lying about how the monetary economy works and they are doing this for ideological reasons. They wish to show that there is no money but an understanding of MMT shows that there is no financial constraint on these governments.

So it is an important distinction. MMT exists everywhere there is a government which is the sole currency issuer and once you recognise that then then the implications for policy choice are huge.

 
You are misunderstanding what MMT is. It is not a policy but a depiction of how the monetary economy works in an economy where the government is the sole currency issuer. The understanding of MMT has implications for policy choice but it is not the policies themselves, which may be left or right wing in nature. The point about these countries is that the political leaders and the media are, almost to a man, lying about how the monetary economy works and they are doing this for ideological reasons. They wish to show that there is no money but an understanding of MMT shows that there is no financial constraint on these governments.

So it is an important distinction. MMT exists everywhere there is a government which is the sole currency issuer and once you recognise that then then the implications for policy choice are huge.


MMT is a 'collection of ideas'.

You made a good effort to misrepresent a simple Q&A and then use it to deflect into another 'conversation' about MMT. I know you and Team MMT are passionate about this subject but I will repeat what I've said before - it will never catch on. Many credible voices on the left agree, and have already rejected it. Even the Communists dislike it.

I will leave you with a quote:

“Speaking with MMT’s adherents is something like watching a football match with friends who insist the ball remains stationary while every other element in the game, including the pitch and goalposts, move around it.”

PS I didn't know the cartoon was first aired in Venezuela nor that it is proxy for fighting Team America, and that it's lead is supposed to be Maduro. The Cubans will be fans no doubt.
 
I only learnt of MMT yesterday with regard to PFM (after Googling). Didn't notice it on PFM before, though probably because I haven't read the forum much recently. Now I look... It's freaking everywhere. It's like somebody* got an idea as a present for their birthday and now wants to show it off to everyone. All the time.

Now it's on the Sir Keir thread.

All very odd. Though also quite intriguing. A mystery...

* I think it's all one person ;)
 
MMT is a 'collection of ideas'.

You made a good effort to misrepresent a simple Q&A and then use it to deflect into another 'conversation' about MMT. I know you and Team MMT are passionate about this subject but I will repeat what I've said before - it will never catch on. Many credible voices on the left agree, and have already rejected it. Even the Communists dislike it.

I will leave you with a quote:

“Speaking with MMT’s adherents is something like watching a football match with friends who insist the ball remains stationary while every other element in the game, including the pitch and goalposts, move around it.”

PS I didn't know the cartoon was first aired in Venezuela nor that it is proxy for fighting Team America, and that it's lead is supposed to be Maduro. The Cubans will be fans no doubt.
Not sure what your issue is. MMT is an observation that tax does not fund government spending. It is in distinction to the Thatcherite homily that tax does fund government spending.

If you believe that tax does fund spending, please say why.
 
I got this from Gen Sec of the LP this morning:

If you are anything like me, you will be watching the Tory Leadership race of fantasy economics unfold in front of our eyes. The contenders have made more than £200 billion worth of unfunded spending commitments. That's more than the annual budget of the NHS, splurged without a word on how it'll be paid for.

Perhaps Sunak and Truss are MMTers.
 
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I got this from Gen Sec of the LP this morning:

If you are anything like me, you will be watching the Tory Leadership race of fantasy economics unfold in front of our eyes. The contenders have made more than £200 billion worth of unfunded spending commitments. That's more than the annual budget of the NHS, splurged without a word on how it'll be paid for.

Perhaps Sunak and Truss are MMTers.

That is utter gibberish, but unless you are particulate ignorant, you will know that by now, so I presume your purpose is to raise the topic of MMT yet again, so you can then moan, again, about MMT being everywhere.
 
I’ve always been interested in the earliest origins of life. At what point does a bunch of chemicals become a self sustaining, replicating life form? This could be the moment where MMT crossed that threshold and became self replicating.
 
I’ve always been interested in the earliest origins of life. At what point does a bunch of chemicals become a self sustaining, replicating life form? This could be the moment where MMT crossed that threshold and became self replicating.
Is this more sarcasm? The MMT bit I mean. Difficult to tell.

If you mean that MMT is self repolicating, then it clearly isn’t, unless you mean the idiotic sort of posts that always bring up MMT, without any reference to the topic itself, just to make a point about it always being brought up. A bit like the one above
 
I’ve always been interested in the earliest origins of life. At what point does a bunch of chemicals become a self sustaining, replicating life form? This could be the moment where MMT crossed that threshold and became self replicating.

Like them Replicators in Stargate?
 
Is this more sarcasm? The MMT bit I mean. Difficult to tell.

If you mean that MMT is self repolicating, then it clearly isn’t, unless you mean the idiotic sort of posts that always bring up MMT, without any reference to the topic itself, just to make a point about it always being brought up. A bit like the one above
It’s contagious!
 
I’ve always been interested in the earliest origins of life. At what point does a bunch of chemicals become a self sustaining, replicating life form? This could be the moment where MMT crossed that threshold and became self replicating.

This is like the original concept of a meme in The Selfish Gene. NB, when it reproduces it mutates - MMT Eve changes into Truss economics.
 
This is good from Frances Ryan:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-money-tree-tory-line-labour-keir-starmer-tax
Within days of Starmer making the “magic money tree” speech, a Tory MP was using the phrase on LBC. That the line is now being used in the context of Tory tax and spending plans does not mark progress. It simply shows how the right’s framing has been so successful that even the left has adopted it.

At its core, the magic money tree is an inherently conservative narrative. It deliberately propagates a false understanding of how the economy works, just as Osborne’s false framing of government spending as akin to a “household budget” throughout the austerity years was used to justify sweeping public funding cuts. Above all, it seeks to delegitimise arguments for public spending, framing policies that improve conditions for ordinary people as unrealistic and wasteful. It is not a coincidence that the “magic money tree” line is more likely to be evoked in response to funding social security than tax cuts for millionaires. It has never simply been about signifying disapproval for uncosted spending, but rather for spending on areas that the status quo deems frivolous.
tl;dr: Even if using this attack line brings short-term tactical gains, it is strategically disastrous to the prospects for progressive change.

Incidentally, this is a good illustration of why it's essential to promote better understanding of the economy in terms of MMT (or even bog-standard Keynesianism would be a huge leap forward for many).
 
This is good from Frances Ryan:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-money-tree-tory-line-labour-keir-starmer-tax

tl;dr: Even if using this attack line brings short-term tactical gains, it is strategically disastrous to the prospects for progressive change.

Incidentally, this is a good illustration of why it's essential to promote better understanding of the economy in terms of MMT (or even bog-standard Keynesianism would be a huge leap forward for many).
Yes. The Magic Money Tree is a monetarist argument. It is one of the lies that underpin the monetarist dogma that there is no alternative. MMT is no more than an observation of the real world that says that there *is* an alternative. What ks more, it is not even very radical, it just says that with an appreciation of where money really comes from, there is an alternative. Monetarism is a lie that says that there is no alternative to cuts to the NHS, austerity, authoritarianism, unemployment, low wages, uncontrolled inflation, economic shocks and widespread misery.

If people do want an alternative, perhaps they should take another look at that alternative before they dismiss it so angrily.

If people want to stick with monetarism, then own it for what it is.

TINA is a lie
 


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