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Ukraine IV

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I found the poster's comments interesting in that they offered some insight into the Russian perspective on events. More specifically, they helped shed some light on what lines Russians are being fed by their leadership. I found his tone very offputting, however.
 
These trolls skewer themselves with every post and it's highly likely their efforts here are completely in vain (although the faux Serb's posts have been liked by at least one confused poster). Better they spin their wheels here than somewhere else they may be more effective.
 
I found the poster's comments interesting in that they offered some insight into the Russian perspective on events. More specifically, they helped shed some light on what lines Russians are being fed by their leadership. I found his tone very offputting, however.
Likewise, really. I don't see Dmitre (with an 'e'!) as a troll or a propagandist but he is immersed in the Russian view of recent events so, inevitably, his posts reflect that. It's an interesting insight into what Russians are being told.

Two points, however:

1. These views might be popular in Russia, but it's important to acknowledge that they are not universal. A minority are against the war and, beyond that, plenty of Russians are sceptical about its legitimacy.

2. It's a mistake to think we are being fed a diet of unvarnished truth. For me, this comes through most clearly in the lack of objective reporting of the progress of the war. Reading a lot of Western reports, one could be forgiven for thinking that Ukrainian forces were smashing the Russian invaders, and that their country would soon be liberated. This is not the case, as maps of the territory controlled by Russia in the East over time make clear (these gains might be reversed in the medium to long term, but gains they are).

I find the other main dissenting voice here (anubisgrau) more interesting because he seems to be adopting a more standard leftist position on the invasion. He's condemned it many times while highlighting the hypocrisy of the West. Entirely reasonable position, in my view.
 
Ah, so that was the price exacted.
I believe so. Geopolitics is a dirty business.

More info here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ts-objections-to-finland-and-swedens-nato-bid
The text of the memorandum signed by all three leaders says that Finland and Sweden will “extend their full support” to Turkey in matters of national security.

The Nordic countries said they confirmed that the PKK was a proscribed organisation and, in a key concession, would “not provide support” to the Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union party (PYD) and People’s Protection Units (YPG) groups that have been active in the fight against Islamic State in Syria.

Finland and Sweden affirmed in the deal there were no national arms embargoes relating to sales to Turkey and all three countries said they would work together on extradition requests.

Sweden is home to 100,000 Kurdish refugees and Turkey has called for the extradition of individuals it says are linked to the PKK or the Syrian YPG.

Stoltenberg said Finland and Sweden had agreed to a “further amending their domestic legislation” to give Turkey the anti-terror reassurances it had sought, and would be “cracking down on PKK activities” and “entering into an agreement with Turkey on extradition”.
Sounds like a raw deal for the Kurds.
 
Likewise, really. I don't see Dmitre (with an 'e'!) as a troll or a propagandist but he is immersed in the Russian view of recent events so, inevitably, his posts reflect that. It's an interesting insight into what Russians are being told.

Agree completely. Like his views or not, Dmitre (with an 'e') gave us an interesting insight into the Russian thinking. The more insight you have on the other side's views, the clearer the overall picture becomes which is (imho) invaluable. Holding the mirror up to our own media's often heavily biased view of events is no bad thing either. I certainly see him exiting the debate as a loss.
 
I don't care if it weak or strong. I'm not here to defend Putin or Russian Military.
My only point — your media tell the half true (manipulate), they try to shock with pictures and direct unverified speech. It's emotional fast food for quick judgments.

I am sure that you will never admit the manipulativeness and one-sidedness of your media. So that was my point. I believe I illustrate it enough.

Last post in this thread. Done.

On a personal level, I hope that the few posts you made that were critical of your government are never seen by Putin's FSB.

Whatever happens going forward, I also hope that someday all nations, including a post-Putin Russia, can live together in peace.

Nice flounce by the way. :rolleyes:
 
I believe so. Geopolitics is a dirty business.

More info here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ts-objections-to-finland-and-swedens-nato-bid

Sounds like a raw deal for the Kurds.

It's a complicated situation that I doubt many understand completely. It seems to come down to the idea that one person's terrorist (PKK) is another person's freedom fighter (YPG).

I too have empathy for Kurdish refugees, but Russia has left Sweden and Finland with little choice. I guess we'll have to wait and see what, if any, new steps Sweden and Finland take. Hopefully they are minimal.
 
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Speaking of realpolitik, the plucky People’s Republics have a new supporter:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...for-finland-and-sweden?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Syria has said it officially recognised the independence and sovereignty of the Russian controlled territories of Luhansk and Donetsk in eastern Ukraine.

Nearly as bad as the only countries voting with Russia against the UN resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: North Korea, Eritrea, Syria and Belarus.
 
Syria has said it officially recognised the independence and sovereignty of the Russian controlled territories of Luhansk and Donetsk in eastern Ukraine.

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2. It's a mistake to think we are being fed a diet of unvarnished truth.

...

I find the other main dissenting voice here (anubisgrau) more interesting because he seems to be adopting a more standard leftist position on the invasion. He's condemned it many times while highlighting the hypocrisy of the West. Entirely reasonable position, in my view.

The first point should be a given for people. Truth is, indeed, the first casualty of war. But some things stand out to the point that academics call "The Bleedn' Obvious" despite attempts to use "Whataboutism", to dilute or divert.

Yes, the hypocracy of some in the West (sic) is pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't read the Daily Mail. That the Uk has been run by people in thrall to the kleptocracy for decades now, is a point made on PFM many times... but doesn't alter the basic issue here. Just needs to be part of our wake-up call, and see what needs to be changed in the UK.

As, TBH, is our need now to have a *relevant* defence procurement process. Another issue, but one we in the UK need to address soon to avoid more waste and failures.
 
It is only interesting if you are far away in safety and encounter that kind of thinking here in forum and not in real life next to you on everyday basis.

I grew up in Northern Ireland in the middle of a 30 year period of suppression/oppression and 'military occupation' (as some would have it). I know full well how the truth can, and is, twisted by both sides to suit their own agenda.

It's only belatedly perhaps that I realised if each side had chosen to listen to the other side properly, we might have sorted it all sooner.
 
Adoroflot package holidays for 2023:
Day 1: overnight Moscow Holidayinnsky
Day 2:coaches depart for Donbas 0:700, arrive Donbas for typical lunch followed by 4WD tour of tank repair facilities
Day3: return to Moscow for flight to Damascus for cultural show and brick laying demonstration
Day4: depart for Pyongyang , early evening visit to missile factory with folkloric show and cabbage soup
Day5: visit DMZ and get to experience firing an AK47 followed by crawling under barbed wire. Gala dinner at great hall of the people*. *(remember to bring warm jumper)
Day6: early morning flight to Volgograd. Holiday ends.
 
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