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Ukraine IV

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Amber Audio said:
What has that got to do with the events in Ukraine, is Russia punishing those events by proxy and invading and murdering thousands of Ukrainian civilians?

There is NO EXCUSE for this Invasion.

As far as Putin is concerned it is crystal clear to anyone with half a brain that talking/diplomacy/appealing to his humanity and compassion WILL NOT WORK.
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Unfortunately, the other thing that will not work is arguing with a troll.
 
[email protected] said:
No it was smart anti rocket UA system.
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Totally irrelevant in the context those munitions would not have been deployed/fired unless there was an incoming missile attack, if the missiles hit and explode it’s deaths not injuries from debris - lesser of 2 evils both the Result of you pal Mr Putin and his puppet in Belarus.
 
TheDecameron said:
A Russian cruise missile has struck an apartment block in Kyiv. Putin is an animal and he has to be stopped.
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Did the Russians target the apartment block or it was brought from its military target (see Dmitre post) by not so sophisticated UA anti missile fire?

Btw this is exactly what happened at the beginning of '99 NATO attack on Yugoslavia before air defense decided to let the missiles go where NATO wants as they run them very low (like 20-30m high from ground) in dense populated urban districts with an obvious aim of terrorizing or murdering civilians. Any interference with the programmed route had made missiles ending in the civilian blocks.
 
anubisgrau said:
Did the Russians target the apartment block or it was brought from its military target (see Dmitre post) by not so sophisticated UA anti missile fire?

Btw this is exactly what happened at the beginning of '99 NATO attack on Yugoslavia before air defense decided to let the missiles go where NATO wants as they run them very low (like 20-30m high from ground) in dense populated urban districts with an obvious aim of terrorizing or murdering civilians. Any interference with the programmed route had made missiles ending in the civilian blocks.
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500 civilians were killed in that campaign (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia.) compared to the 4600 killed in Ukraine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Casualties_and_humanitarian_impact). That suggests NATO and Russian military planners have a different a different attitude towards civilian populations.
 
anubisgrau said:
Please remind me when and where you principally objected when your army invaded other sovereign states, or attacked civilian quarters, markets, hospitals, bridges using cluster bombs and depleted uranium?
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I thought we established that Putin's campaign to "gather Russian lands" is closest to Milosevic's attempt to enlarge Serbian lands during the savage Yugoslavian wars. And in both cases, NATO helped defeat the madman.

During the buildup to the Iraq war I ran an anti-invasion essay site called "Axis of Civil."
 
Seeker_UK said:
500 civilians were killed in that campaign (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia.) compared to the 4600 killed in Ukraine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Casualties_and_humanitarian_impact). That suggests NATO and Russian military planners have a different a different attitude towards civilian populations.
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It seems clear from previous Russian actions that their SOP is to essentially raze into rubble civilian areas of the cities/towns. Just pound away with artilliery, etc. Essentially eliminate any population that doesn't welcome them in.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
It seems clear from previous Russian actions that their SOP is to essentially raze into rubble civilian areas of the cities/towns. Just pound away with artilliery, etc. Essentially eliminate any population that doesn't welcome them in.
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Yes.

I understand Russians being taken in by the propaganda, and being afraid of dissent but it's staggering there are apologists around with access to unbiased reporting.
 
Brian said:
Yes.

I understand Russians being taken in by the propaganda, and being afraid of dissent but it's staggering there are apologists around with access to unbiased reporting.
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It wouldn't be very good propaganda if majority wouldn't be taken in by it.

It must convince its' targets that they should believe Russian government controlled information (5%) over the rest of the world's (95%).

And as we can see, it works very well indeed.
 
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-security/telegram-secure-platform-nato-warns

Sarts is very worried that Telegram is "no longer the same" because of the encryption system and "channels with disinformation." Moreover, he bluntly stated that "Western democracies" need to develop "standards" for large social networks before allowing them to enter the world market, so that "Moscow or Beijing will not gain a new advantage in a future war." Paradoxically, Sarts sees in this only the protection of "freedom of speech" and "fairness in the treatment of information."

Sarts is a former high-ranking official of the Latvian Ministry of Defense, and now his Center advises NATO on "the development of narratives and counter-narrative strategies," that is, information policy. So his concern is directly related to his work commitments to NATO.

It is obvious that Telegram violates the monopoly of the West on the formation of the agenda they need, and many of its citizens already prefer to move to this social network, where alternative points of view can be found. Manual censorship will not work here.

For example, last week on the website of the Atlantic Council, an analytical center at NATO (think tank), they also engaged in " (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-at ) exposing the Kremlin Telegram-channels. Apparently, this is a frequent heading on their website. In particular, they claim that pro-Russian channels produce fakes about how weapons supplied to Ukraine are being sold on the black market. After all, there is no corruption in Ukraine, as you know :)

The role of Telegram in the current conflict was also written in an authoritative American publication (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/03/russia-ukraine-war-propaganda/626975 /), where "disinformation" is also associated only with Russia.

It is significant that "disinformation" and "conspiracy theories" have been added to the labels "freedom of speech". The latter, by the way, is increasingly used by Western media for those who dare to promote a different point of view in the media space (including Telegram). In particular, supporters of Donald Trump were actively accused of spreading "conspiracy theories" through the messenger (https://www.amny.com/nation/jan-6-witnesses-trump-supporters-disinformation /), and recently The Guardian accused in the same case, independent English-speaking journalists who wrote about Syria and Ukraine not according to the generally accepted methodology.

These are just a few examples of how the Western media space is actively worried about the popularity of the messenger, which they cannot censor.
 
[email protected] said:
unsinkable arguments
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You are an excellent example, just as you are.

You had a point earlier in the war when you were confused and uncertain where the truth was. You had a chance to grow.

But you quickly fell under the comfortable blanket of Russian propaganda and you are now a happy russian boy.
 
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