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Cartridge with conical stylus for used records.

gerlando

Prog Rocker
Hello everyone, I would like to buy a cheap cartridge with a conical stylus for listening to old used records, as this type of stylus seems to be more forgiving than the elliptical one.
I have already had good results with the AT91 on my Transcriptors.
I am therefore undecided between the new Audio Technica VM95C (which is said to be very good) and the classic AT-3600l / Rega Carbon.
I look forward for any advice and / or suggestions on these or other cartridges.
PS: I would prefer a tracking weight of no more than 2.5g.

Thank you.
Mauro
 
I have both the 3600L and 95C here. The 95C is better but not by much, they are pretty similar. The advantage of the 95 is the large range of styli for it. If that's not a worry just get the 3600L as it's almost as good and half the price.

I've bought them direct from China off eBay several times and never had a bad one. Look around and you should find one for about £17, which is crazy!
 
An elliptical stylus is nothing like as picky as the line contact types when it comes to setup. And it improves end-of-side distortion, which is the conical stylus bugbear. I'd get an AT-VM95e, but that's just me.
 
Surely what's required to get the best out of "old used records" is anything but a conical stylus.

A crappy conical stylus is what they've always been played and knackered with in most cases.

Provided they're properly cleaned a microline, shibata or FG tip must be the way to go to minimise the impact of previous damage?
 
Surely what's required to get the best out of "old used records" is anything but a conical stylus.

A crappy conical stylus is what they've always been played and knackered with in most cases.

Provided they're properly cleaned a microline, shibata or FG tip must be the way to go to minimise the impact of previous damage?

I'm curious about this. In the past when I've asked on hi-fi forums about cartridges to minimise the effects of damage I've just been told to buy new records :rolleyes:
 
In the days when records cost £1 in charity shops maybe, but these days not so much.

The current advice is probably "buy the CD"
 
I'm curious about this.

It's quite simple actually.

As the name suggests, a line contact stylus touches the groove in more of a line rather than a rounder patch. Like a dagger shape.

Imagine you cover your kitchen table in litter. Nuts and bolts, little bits of wood. Now roll a wooden roller over it. If the roller is the width of a trolley wheel it'll hit the odd thing but miss a lot of it. If the roller is the width of a paint roller, or almost the width of the table, it's hitting everything! It will be deflected and lifted off the table far more than the narrow roller.

In fact the narrow roller might knock things out of the way even if it does hit them.

So if you have a used record that has been played with a worn stylus and has damage on part of the groove wall, there is more chance a line contact stylus will hit this area and pick up the damage. A simpler stylus might miss it completely.

The Denon DL103 is a good example. It's a low-output moving coil but it has a conical stylus because it was designed to be used in radio studios where you'll need to play worn records.

This is why a record can sound bad on one stylus and ok on another. Different profiles touch different parts of the groove one might hit damage while another misses it.

Even among advanced types, some profiles are more forgiving than others. Shibata and Gyger S seem to find every bit of crap in there while Audio Technicas SLC is detailed while not highlighting the problems so much. It's a matter of what compromise you want. The most detail but noise of poor records or trade some of that information so you can enjoy more of your music. It's your call.
 
I’d actually argue the reverse, that a good stylus profile (micro-line, Geiger, Shibata etc) contacts a far wider and tighter area of the groove wall and can often negate a narrow area of damage caused by a more primitive shape.

I’d never play a record that had deep scratches, i.e. anything that stood a remote possibility of hooking a stylus tip off or even jumping. Those are records to chuck out to the local charity shop, they have no audiophile context. I’ll also never play a dirty record, and that is where most issues with second hand vinyl lies. A good wet vacuum record cleaner is an essential accessory to any vinyl collection IMO. This done I have no issue playing anything in a condition I’d be prepared to own with the best cartridge I can afford or justify. I only ever have one cartridge in use.
 
The VM95 series offers the opportunity to try out all the different types of stylus.

the VM95 Conical costs about £29 - I would start there.

A little more detail on the term, “old, used records “ would be useful.

Deep Scratches that you can hook with a fingernail? I wouldn’t bother, all you will hear is frequent loud clicks.

Surface paper scuffs? Go for it.

A basic wet-clean as a minimum for dusty/dirty vinyl.
 
I’d never play a record that had deep scratches, i.e. anything that stood a remote possibility of hooking a stylus tip off or even jumping.

I'm interested in anything that can minimise playback distortion from groove wear - the sort of thing you get towards end of side when it's been played 100s of times on a Dansette fitted with a rusty nail. I suspect there's no magic bullet but wouldn't be surprised if some styles profiles (or even some cartridge designs) reduce it to a degree.
 
I'm interested in anything that can minimise playback distortion from groove wear - the sort of thing you get towards end of side when it's been played 100s of times on a Dansette fitted with a rusty nail. I suspect there's no magic bullet but wouldn't be surprised if some styles profiles (or even some cartridge designs) reduce it to a degree.

IME the better the stylus profile the better result you’ll get. I’m a big fan of fancy tips (micro-line, micro-ridge, Shibata, Geiger etc) as they are able to properly trace the groove end of side whereas conical tips and cruder elliptical tips just can’t. Starting with a tip that is at least theoretically capable of retrieving this information puts you in a far better place regardless of record condition.

I really can’t emphasise just how important cleaning is though. That can often get a lot that initially seems to be mistracking, crackling etc out of the equation. If the record is genuinely damaged with a chipped tip or whatever then there is no fixing it, but many old and obviously well-used records can sound superb once properly cleaned and played with a good cartridge/tip profile. As an example the best I’ve ever heard The Beatles sound is from original UK mono vinyl and that has always been hard to find above say VG to a very borderline EX condition. The people who bought it tended to hammer it on Dansettes etc even if they didn’t scratch it. It will still beat anything made since to my ears!
 
...I have already had good results with the AT91 on my Transcriptors...

if you like the AT91 (et al) then I suggest you consider a Black diamond stylus for it. These are real elliptical (not just rounded spherical, like most of them) square shank nude ellipticals that sound very good for the money. Keep the AT91 and experience better sound. I don't have the BD AT91 (on my list to get) but have been impressed by the ones I have bought (AT12, AT13, AT95, the latter with a Linn K18 body).
 
the VM95 Conical costs about £29 - I would start there.

A little more detail on the term, “old, used records “ would be useful.

Deep Scratches that you can hook with a fingernail? I wouldn’t bother, all you will hear is frequent loud clicks.

Surface paper scuffs? Go for it.

A basic wet-clean as a minimum for dusty/dirty vinyl.

“old, used records“ but clean and with no deep scratches.
Surface paper scuffs? Maybe.
 
Like Tony, I’d recommend something much better like an AT ML profile.
That magically sails through worn records, exploring never played before zones of the groove.
I’ve played records that were virtually unlistenable with any other tips, including posher Shibata.
VM95ML it has to be. Look no further.
 


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