Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I think even the Thatcher government could arguably be said to be better than the government we have now. However, both Thatcher and Blair laid the groundwork for where we are now, and cemented it in place.
Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VI
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Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
The problem people have with thinking they are 'middle of the road' is that they seem to have various different roads in mind.
Tony L
Administrator
Perphaps you should read more books and journals.
Is this forum an "ancient and increasingly obsolete form"?
Or do you mean that twerper is a superior source for understanding than, say, textbooks on a topic? Do you think printed textbooks are now obsolete?
Yes, you are a scientist, an academic. That’s great. I have nothing but respect for your understanding of electronics, physics, astronomy etc. Huge respect. Now please give an indication of how many of the wider electorate have political qualifications or actually read ‘books and journals’ to inform their voting decisions? I’m prepared to bet I am in the top 2% or so as I have at least actually read Marx’s Das Kapital! It really isn’t a factor.
You constantly slag off Twitter, Facebook etc, and IMHO do so with all the understanding of a luddite wanting to smash-up an automated loom. The simple reality is if you want direct connection to political movers and shakers of all colours it is the best source on the planet right now as you can go direct to the people or organisations and follow their own unedited output as it happens. You get to see their words first hand and can even get responses to questions should they choose to answer. As you are left-leaning you can go straight to the politicians (both parties and individual MPs) you respect, the trade unions, thought-shapers and pressure groups such as Momentum, Black Lives Matter, Extinction Rebellion, commentators such as Owen Jones or whoever you personally like and hear their thoughts in their words on issues occurring right now without it being later selected, diluted and editorialised by the posh white middle-aged straight BBC, Private Eye, or worse the Daily Telegraph, Mail or whatever. Go straight to the source, cut out the middleman. Younger folk fully understand this. Please do not underestimate them.
PS As to this forum, yes, this is dead technology. It is a certainly over a decade out of touch and serves a predominantly elderly demographic. I am very aware of its shortcomings and also aware if I do nothing it will in time erode. I’m not ready to rethink it right now, but I’m certainly aware much of the sort of retro/classic audio content I carry has now moved to YouTube and other platforms.
sideshowbob
Champagne fascia aficionado
Ofc the centre travels, that's a statement of the obvious. So does the right, and so does the left. From my perspective Corbynism was as significant as a rightward move amongst large swathes of the old far left into Labour proceduralism and old school tankie-ism as it was a move to the left (briefly, before its failings and disappointments killed it) among a younger crowd relatively new to politics. So forgive me for not getting nostalgic for it, or caring much for its demise. A truly radical new left won't emerge from or be led by old Stalinists and trade union bureaucrats.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
If Centrism is defined as a balance between social equality and social hierarchy, then it could be argued that Thatcher shifted the balance towards social hierarchy and Blair sought to bring it back towards social equality. However, as the Blair tenure developed, the balance started to shift back again and pretty much fell over after 2010 so that what we have now is social hierarchy standing proud lord of all it surveys. Centrism has lost it’s balance, it needs to regain it.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
The problem is that centrism, as most people would define it in their own case, is about recognising that both sides have some valid positions on some things. So 'I agree with that lot on the right about X, but I agree with that lot on the left about Y' and so-on. If the right has drifted further towards the right, the centre would only drift to the right if the left also drifted rightwards.
Tony L
Administrator
The whole thing is a distraction IMHO. The only question that matters is how to navigate the hopelessly biased and broken FPTP electoral system in a totally divided post-Brexit landscape? Especially given Republican-style voter suppression is so clearly on the way. How do we ensure fascism does not win?
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I'm not even sure selling it off cheap was such a great idea. The bloke we bought our first flat from bought it off the council a few years earlier and was cashing in selling it for three times what he paid. Obviously he had to buy somewhere but a nice little earner all the same.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Banging on about Corbyn is the distraction, he’s the past. Centrism is the future, centrism is the path to changing our politics, to shifting our politics from where it is now.
droodzilla
pfm Member
So, who will be the next Labour leader?
https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1524632370049175554
Burnham is the best of a bad (terrible!) bunch but... how?!
https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1524632370049175554
Burnham is the best of a bad (terrible!) bunch but... how?!
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
….it’ll be Rachael Tougher Than The Tories Reeves. She’s a perfect fit
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
He's parachuted in for the Wakefield by-election, wins (it's a shoe-in), Starmer quits, he gets nominated, wins and resigns his mayoral job.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Burnham seems to be Twitter's choice too - 67% in the poll at the bottom of the thread.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Labour NEC has already announced the longlist of four candidates for the Wakefield by-election:
https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1524511800775135232
Other options available to The King of the North:
https://twitter.com/LabourList/status/1524716706899312648
https://twitter.com/elliot_chappell/status/1524504258799878145
I guess the real question is whether Burnham wants it + whether the NEC, given its current political make-up, wants him.
Seanm
pfm Member
As far as I can tell the hardcore Blairites have a tight grip on things and there's no way they'd tolerate Burnham, let alone put in all the moves required. Starmer was barely right wing/compliant enough for them. Burnham's the obvious choice because he seems vaguely human, and that's probably enough at this stage. But the right's priority will be consolidating control rather than winning.
notaclue
pfm Member
Will likely be Wes Streeting or Rachel Reeves.
Labour need a woman leader at some point so that gives Reeves a big boost, but Streeting would presumably be first (openly) gay leader of a major party (unless I am forgetting one) and is better on the media and a better speaker.
If there was a Rachel Streeting, she would be a shoo-in.
Burnham has lost what momentum he had. His moment has gone. As his music choice showed, interestingly enough https://thequietus.com/articles/31215-andy-burnham-bakers-dozen-favourite-music. Solid, but stuck in the past, inward looking and unadventurous.
Yvette Cooper is tremendous in the Commons so has a chance.
Yes, I don't like some of the narrative that can surround this, the inference that certain 'types' shouldn't be home owners. 100% agree with what you say though, it ultimately transerred more power to unscrupulous private landlords. I would like to think that there are good private landlords also, in fact, they are probably in the majority.
You equally apply that to the right or left.The problem people have with thinking they are 'middle of the road' is that they seem to have various different roads in mind.
I don't believe sexuality is an inherent qualification in itself
Yvette Cooper, capable operator but not the answer IMV. I think Reeves is the likliest option (ducks for cover etc)
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