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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition)

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After Leave UK’s historic warning to Germany,

g73iK6o.jpg


the DM has declared a state of war now exists with France:


“Non, non, non! Tinpot Napoleon Emmanuel Macron has a cynical plan to give Remoaners a backdoor into a new EU-lite. To which, writes JONATHAN MILLER, there is only one reply…….
We must see this for what it is: the latest plotting of a tin-pot Napoleon, obsessed by his own vision of a European state, and a politician who cannot understand that — even six years on — Brexit really did mean Brexit”.

Echoing the words of the Iron Lady, the paper warns that France is now getting above itself (ie above Brexit Island).
 
Well yes, my reaction precisely when the realisation came that dickheads had voted for this nebulous sovereignty, which gave you as an individual precisely zero-sum gain in having control of legislation, and enabled our supposedly accountable government to thieve and kill throughout the pandemic, paralysed ineptitude and neglect with no sanction, these dickheads had actually had tangible and not illusory effect on our lives.
From still ongoing - how many years down the line - border fiasco having empty shelves at the supermarket, turning southern Engerland into a pop-up lorry park, shortages, even - and this is a hi fi forum - not being able to buy hi fi new or second hand from Europe without huge extra trouble and tax beyond it being worth the bother.
And the rest, the pages of it.

This is real stuff, with real effects and consequences hence my complete bafflement because non of the stuff you cite is real, it's illusory - you never were personally disenfranchised by lawmaking becoming an EU perogative, and neither are you in any way a part of the process with any influence whatsoever now we have left. Unless you have a few mil to bung as a lobbyist - that particular democratic avenue is unchanged by us leaving. You had bugger all input before, bugger all input after us joining, and bugger all now.
But the rotting fruit and unpicked vegetables, the food banks, the pensioners on endless bus journeys to keep warm, the coming house repossessions, unfortunately these effects aren't. Neither are they becoming more infrequent or abating.

A complete shitshow has been unleashed for magic beans.
They didn't vote for sovereignty. It was a word that almost nobody had heard, still less used, in 2016. They voted for "taking back control" which they had already and have no more of now , and for fewer immigrants. We still have them. The factories where I work still run on immigrant labour, the difference is that they are shorter term, less educated, lower skilled and ironically now they really do send the money home because they know they're not staying. The sovereignty line was dreamt up after the vote and was picked up as a buzzword and a convenient shorthand, so it stuck.
 
They didn't vote for sovereignty. It was a word that almost nobody had heard, still less used, in 2016. They voted for "taking back control" which they had already and have no more of now , and for fewer immigrants. We still have them. The factories where I work still run on immigrant labour, the difference is that they are shorter term, less educated, lower skilled and ironically now they really do send the money home because they know they're not staying. The sovereignty line was dreamt up after the vote and was picked up as a buzzword and a convenient shorthand, so it stuck.
The Northern Irish are about to get a dose of Sovereignty, good and hard.
 
As I have acknowledged many times. The UK's membership of the EEC/EU, remember, was a long-term tory project, a consolidation of the advantages of the 3%.

The irony is that the EU has made an artform out of hoodwinking the left into believing it is for them. There is almost no left wing case for membership of the EU. It is utter delusion.
No it wasn't. The successive conservative government s profited from it, sure, but that's just the usual exploitation of a situation.
 
A frothing, almost completely incoherent rant from which I can unpick a heap of exaggeration, a lot of false conflation of causes and effects in which there are odd things that I don't have an argument with but that have either little or sfa to do with brexit, all of it entirely intertwined with a seething fury and loathing for the current pm and the current government, a smattering of narrow self-interest, and something that equates to either a complete contempt for, or a total misunderstanding of, the basic principles of sovereign democracy, probably both.

And for all of your raging fury about and apparent hatred of this Union of countries and its (current) leadership, absolutely no acknowledgement of the brutality, grasping ambition, structural and democratic incoherence and sly furtiveness of - and deficiency of real consent for - the EU project.

Your posts are imbued with an increasingly furious, spittle-flecked and invective-ridden contempt for the views of anyone - and there aren't that many of us here - who doesn't happen to share your often pretty obscure, ill-constructed and highly partisan opinions on Brexit, the UK, the EU, and the principles of democracy. It is very clear that that contempt extends to those who hold those opinions.

Well yes, my reaction precisely when the realisation came that dickheads had voted for this nebulous sovereignty, which gave you as an individual precisely zero-sum gain in having control of legislation, and enabled our supposedly accountable government to thieve and kill throughout the pandemic, paralysed ineptitude and neglect with no sanction, these dickheads had actually had tangible and not illusory effect on our lives.
From still ongoing - how many years down the line - border fiasco having empty shelves at the supermarket, turning southern Engerland into a pop-up lorry park, shortages, even - and this is a hi fi forum - not being able to buy hi fi new or second hand from Europe without huge extra trouble and tax beyond it being worth the bother.
And the rest, the pages of it.

This is real stuff, with real effects and consequences hence my complete bafflement because non of the stuff you cite is real, it's illusory - you never were personally disenfranchised by lawmaking becoming an EU perogative, and neither are you in any way a part of the process with any influence whatsoever now we have left. Unless you have a few mil to bung as a lobbyist - that particular democratic avenue is unchanged by us leaving. You had bugger all input before, bugger all input after us joining, and bugger all now.
But the rotting fruit and unpicked vegetables, the food banks, the pensioners on endless bus journeys to keep warm, the coming house repossessions, unfortunately these effects aren't. Neither are they becoming more infrequent or abating.

A complete shitshow has been unleashed for magic beans.
 
After Leave UK’s historic warning to Germany,

g73iK6o.jpg


the DM has declared a state of war now exists with France:


“Non, non, non! Tinpot Napoleon Emmanuel Macron has a cynical plan to give Remoaners a backdoor into a new EU-lite. To which, writes JONATHAN MILLER, there is only one reply…….
We must see this for what it is: the latest plotting of a tin-pot Napoleon, obsessed by his own vision of a European state, and a politician who cannot understand that — even six years on — Brexit really did mean Brexit”.

Echoing the words of the Iron Lady, the paper warns that France is now getting above itself (ie above Brexit Island).

I briefly read a summary of Macron's speech in the DT yesterday, though unlike you, I haven't read your DM link. If what I read is true - that Macron is attempting to advance the EU project by offering non-member countries what essentially boils down to the political bits of the EU - then he has provided sufficient evidence of his state of haughtily detached delusion to attract the attention of men in flapping white coats.
 
Yes, and they didn't vote for it. Still, it's democratic, isn't it? If they don't like it they can vote out the government in London, can't they? Oh. They can't.

They can vote for a NI government that will serve their wishes in due course - give it a decade - and under the terms of the Dublin Agreement, London will be compelled to provide its accord.
 
My answer to thread the thread title is:

NONE.

In my day to day working and family life I experience only downsides, there has been absolutely no tangible benefits to me personally, quite the opposite.
 
A frothing, almost completely incoherent rant from which I can unpick a heap of exaggeration, a lot of false conflation of causes and effects in which there are odd things that I don't have an argument with but that have either little or sfa to do with brexit, all of it entirely intertwined with a seething fury and loathing for the current pm and the current government, a smattering of narrow self-interest, and something that equates to either a complete contempt for, or a total misunderstanding of, the basic principles of sovereign democracy, probably both.

And for all of your raging fury about and apparent hatred of this Union of countries and its (current) leadership, absolutely no acknowledgement of the brutality, grasping ambition, structural and democratic incoherence and sly furtiveness of - and deficiency of real consent for - the EU project.

Your posts are imbued with an increasingly furious, spittle-flecked and invective-ridden contempt for the views of anyone - and there aren't that many of us here - who doesn't happen to share your often pretty obscure, ill-constructed and highly partisan opinions on Brexit, the UK, the EU, and the principles of democracy. It is very clear that that contempt extends to those who hold those opinions.

We have our current PM and cabinet thanks to Brexit. A constant reminder of where it has and is taking this country.
 
We have our current PM and cabinet thanks to Brexit. A constant reminder of where it has and is taking this country.

Some things are constant, Nick, and others aren't. In three years time we will have a Labour government with different policies, but the European Commission will still be there, furtively advancing the EU project without the consent of Europe's citizens, and those citizens will still be unable to do much about it.
 
My answer to thread the thread title is:

NONE.

In my day to day working and family life I experience only downsides, there has been absolutely no tangible benefits to me personally, quite the opposite.

If you believe that the EU is A Good Thing, then there are no tangible benefits to leaving it.

Believing the EU to be A Good Thing does of course entail a pretty strenuous denial of some awkward realities, but it seems that lots of us can manage that OK.
 
There's a huge grey area between thinking the EU is an unqualified Good Thing and thinking it is an Evil Empire. On balance, for various reasons (not least the likely disintegration of the UK now it's outside the EU), I think the UK should have remained in the EU.
 
They can vote for a NI government that will serve their wishes in due course - give it a decade - and under the terms of the Dublin Agreement, London will be compelled to provide its accord.
They can vote for it but they don’t get it because one faction in collusion with your Tory Govt can withdraw it at will. The democratic majority there are about to have their choices overturned.
 
If you believe that the EU is A Good Thing, then there are no tangible benefits to leaving it.

Believing the EU to be A Good Thing does of course entail a pretty strenuous denial of some awkward realities, but it seems that lots of us can manage that OK.

This old nonsense again.

The EU is on balance a good thing, that could be better (what couldn't?). Leaving it with no real alternatives to the many benefits, on the pretext of a host of exaggerated or in many cases totally false claims about obligations or constraints would not have been wise from a position of strength, let alone from where the UK was. Encouraging people to believe their situation personally was being 'held back' by membership of something that actually gave them more freedoms, protections and opportunities was pure deception in the interests of a few.
 
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