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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition)

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The Festival of Brexit will soon be upon us. Originally planned, a bit like Putina’s premature victory against Europe goose stepping exhibition yesterday, to celebrate Britain’s own triumphant plucky defiance of Europe.

But Nadine Dorries de-Brexitified it and people’s not happy. The ERG are collectively shifting from one buttock to the other, not to see up the deputy leader of the opposition’s skirt but because…discomfort. Will Nadine be made to see sense?

Lord Rothermere fulminates:
Project was originally coined as a way of championing UK's decision to leave EU !!!

Is THIS the best of Britain? From street events in Luton and Hull, 'grow your own food' shows and an art exhibition on a disused oil rig in Weston-super-Mare... UK's £120m 'festival of Brexit' is blasted by MPs for 'lacking vision
  • National event launched in Paisley, Scotland, last week and runs until October (the horror…)
  • It hosts 10 'creative' programmes, including art exhibitions and food initiatives
  • But report from DCMS Committee called it an 'irresponsible use of public money'
 
eternumviti said:
As the CAP rewarded production, it generated vast overproduction of some commodities - I'm sure you recall the various 'mountains' of intervention foods. The wine was turned into industrial alcohol, the butter flogged off cheap to the Russians when it turned rancid, and the milk powder was dumped on southern hemisphere countries, bankrupting their own dairy farms. Its debatable that it even made food cheaper, due to the tarrifs of up to 200% that were imposed upon third country imports. The latter of course had the side-effect of impoverishing the farming sectors of those countries, but then why should we worry about them, as long as we're alright, Jack. I mean Steve.

And it wasn't merely the loss of hedgerows, it was far-reaching, long term and sometimes permanent ecological and environmental devastation.
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It's not a case of all right Jack as you well know, but the way you position it makes it look like there were no reasons to ramp up food supply, incentivise new production and reward higher yields.

As usual with such vast initiatives, controlling the beast once you have achieved (relatively) rapid expansion and production is not easy and there are long tails of custom and contract which seemed like a good idea when you needed speed. Christ, we struggled to reign in excess over a few months of supplying COVID equipment as an aside.

Fact is nobody in the late sixties and seventies was experiencing the forties/fifties style food austerity and they were happy about that.

That doesn't excuse the poor management once the situation had stabilised but having experienced real hunger and shortages, people were loathe to upset the farming industy back then, particularly the Tories who numbered several among their MPs and Peers and were heavily funded and lobbied by farming and food - still are by the latter.
 
SteveS1 said:
It's not a case of all right Jack as you well know, but the way you position it makes it look like there were no reasons to ramp up food supply, incentivise new production and reward higher yields.

As usual with such vast initiatives, controlling the beast once you have achieved (relatively) rapid expansion and production is not easy and there are long tails of custom and contract which seemed like a good idea when you needed speed. Christ, we struggled to reign in excess over a few months of supplying COVID equipment as an aside.

Fact is nobody in the late sixties and seventies was experiencing the forties/fifties style food austerity and they were happy about that.

That doesn't excuse the poor management once the situation had stabilised but having been hungry people were loathe to upset the farming industy, particularly the Tories who numbered several among their MPs and Peers and were heavily funded and lobbied by farming and food - still are by the latter.
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Oh look, in addition to Energy insecurity, Russia is capable of choking off Ukraine’ grain exports. Who needs food security anyway?
 
TheDecameron said:
Oh look, in addition to Energy insecurity, Russia is capable of choking off Ukraine’ grain exports. Who needs food security anyway?
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It was quite a nice aspect of life when food supply and prices were pretty much the least of anyone's worries. As we will begin to find out all over again.
 
As I have acknowledged many times. The UK's membership of the EEC/EU, remember, was a long-term tory project, a consolidation of the advantages of the 3%.

The irony is that the EU has made an artform out of hoodwinking the left into believing it is for them. There is almost no left wing case for membership of the EU. It is utter delusion.

SteveS1 said:
It's not a case of all right Jack as you well know, but the way you position it makes it look like there were no reasons to ramp up food supply, incentivise new production and reward higher yields.

As usual with such vast initiatives, controlling the beast once you have achieved (relatively) rapid expansion and production is not easy and there are long tails of custom and contract which seemed like a good idea when you needed speed. Christ, we struggled to reign in excess over a few months of supplying COVID equipment as an aside.

Fact is nobody in the late sixties and seventies was experiencing the forties/fifties style food austerity and they were happy about that.

That doesn't excuse the poor management once the situation had stabilised but having experienced real hunger and shortages, people were loathe to upset the farming industy back then, particularly the Tories who numbered several among their MPs and Peers and were heavily funded and lobbied by farming and food - still are by the latter.
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eternumviti said:
As I have acknowledged many times. The UK's membership of the EEC/EU, remember, was a long-term tory project, a consolidation of the advantages of the 3%.

The irony is that the EU has made an artform out of hoodwinking the left into believing it is for them. There is almost no left wing case for membership of the EU. It is utter delusion.
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Nice piece of irrelevence. But I'll take these little deflective ejaculations over the "bore people into submission with word salads" technique.
 
eternumviti said:
How is it irrelevant? You raised the matter of advantaged tories.
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I raised the twin points that populations and politicians were (back then) not of a mind to lay into farming. Particularly the Tories, who in addition to the public appreciation that food supply was now cheap and secure, counted many farmers among them and recieved funds off the back of their success.
 
SteveS1 said:
I raised the twin points that populations and politicians were (back then) not of a mind to lay into farming, particularly the Tories who in addition to the public appreciation that food supply was now cheap and secure, counted many farmers among them and recieved funds off the back of their success.
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Precisely, and which I have said myself many times. You're actually arguing with me by firing my own points back at me.

As regards your longer point in your post upstream, I fully acknowledge the need to ramp up food production, and have also already done so (noble aims etc). However, the beast that it created took 30 years to begin to tame by taking production out of the subsidy equation. However, it still continued to disproportionately advantage large, by definition wealthy, landowners, and 60 odd years on, it still does.

You are struggling to disagree with me. Why can't you just acknowledge it?
 
SteveS1 said:
Nice piece of irrelevence. But I'll take these little deflective ejaculations over the "bore people into submission with word salads" technique.
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Generously packed salad boxes*. Fact me till I fart.

* May contain irrelevances and factual inaccuracies, please check before consuming.
 
TheDecameron said:
Here we go:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...eland-protocol-reports?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Truss preparing to break an international treaty. That’ll be the second time in about a week the civil service will have to request a ministerial directive from this government so that the consequences of the illegality rest entirely with the Minister.
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Ah, so now we know what Liz Truss is for: she's the monkey who gets to take the cork out of the elephant's bum.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Ah, so now we know what Liz Truss is for: she's the monkey who gets to take the cork out of the elephant's bum.
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The deduction in the piece is that she’s on leadership manoeuvres again and that less extreme heads in Cabinet are warning against blowing Northern Ireland up an invoking EU and US sanctions but it seems this shower will go to any lengths including law breaking in order to serve themselves.

Like virtually everything else they’ve done in office their Brexit has failed and is damaging to both society and our international reputation.
 
TheDecameron said:
Here we go:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...eland-protocol-reports?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Truss preparing to break an international treaty. That’ll be the second time in about a week the civil service will have to request a ministerial directive from this government so that the consequences of the illegality rest entirely with the Minister.
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How is this different from Frosty's gesticulations, which went exactly nowhere? Because she is low enough to actually go ahead with it?
 
eternumviti said:
Which 'unelected officials' make our laws now that we are out of the EU?

How would a donation to the GLP 'make me feel better? I feel fine.

I've given you quite a range of examples of laws made without any real democratic mandate pre-brexit, and set out at length how it was done. Post brexit we have a greater degree of say over who creates legislation by virtue of the ballot box, and the process is imbued with a far greater degree of transparency without the EU to act as a shield behind which our politicians can hide whilst they conduct the work of their lobbyists. I acknowledge that it doesn't quite feel as though this is the case due to the shenanigans of the current government, but you must be able to see that they are incredibly exposed in their attempts to hoodwink the electorate. There is at least one well stuffed thread entirely devoted to it on this forum.
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So, illusory, the tories are getting away with it, and better than they dared dream pre brexit.
You didn't give any examples as I requested. You see, I like practical and empirical data rather than hot air and word salad.
So unless you can advance examples of how you should have been able to inluence legislation, pre brexit, and were thwarted, and how you are now able to get laws on statute, and whats more, consign those who do not cooperate with your legislative timetable to the fiery pits of hell, it's illusory, and self delusion at that.
We have precisely the same influence now as pre brexit - zero.
All that has changed is the depth of the trough, and that sanctioning those who slurp a little more greedily than they did pre brexit is now a faded memory.
 
The choice is there to ‘sanction’ the govt of the day. Some have other priorities and choose to help them along.

By way of a reminder, the tory govt position in 2016 was to campaign for remaining a member of the EU.
 
ff1d1l said:
So, illusory, the tories are getting away with it, and better than they dared dream pre brexit.
You didn't give any examples as I requested. You see, I like practical and empirical data rather than hot air and word salad.
So unless you can advance examples of how you should have been able to inluence legislation, pre brexit, and were thwarted, and how you are now able to get laws on statute, and whats more, consign those who do not cooperate with your legislative timetable to the fiery pits of hell, it's illusory, and self delusion at that.
We have precisely the same influence now as pre brexit - zero.
All that has changed is the depth of the trough, and that sanctioning those who slurp a little more greedily than they did pre brexit is now a faded memory.
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Blimey!
 
eternumviti said:
Blimey!
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Well yes, my reaction precisely when the realisation came that dickheads had voted for this nebulous sovereignty, which gave you as an individual precisely zero-sum gain in having control of legislation, and enabled our supposedly accountable government to thieve and kill throughout the pandemic, paralysed ineptitude and neglect with no sanction, these dickheads had actually had tangible and not illusory effect on our lives.
From still ongoing - how many years down the line - border fiasco having empty shelves at the supermarket, turning southern Engerland into a pop-up lorry park, shortages, even - and this is a hi fi forum - not being able to buy hi fi new or second hand from Europe without huge extra trouble and tax beyond it being worth the bother.
And the rest, the pages of it.

This is real stuff, with real effects and consequences hence my complete bafflement because non of the stuff you cite is real, it's illusory - you never were personally disenfranchised by lawmaking becoming an EU perogative, and neither are you in any way a part of the process with any influence whatsoever now we have left. Unless you have a few mil to bung as a lobbyist - that particular democratic avenue is unchanged by us leaving. You had bugger all input before, bugger all input after us joining, and bugger all now.
But the rotting fruit and unpicked vegetables, the food banks, the pensioners on endless bus journeys to keep warm, the coming house repossessions, unfortunately these effects aren't. Neither are they becoming more infrequent or abating.

A complete shitshow has been unleashed for magic beans.
 
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