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Verve Acoustic Sounds Series Reissues

To my ears both Acoustic Sounds and Blue Note Tone Poets/Classic are boosting both the top and bottom a little compared to original pressings. This kind of has the effect of sucking the mid back a bit. They all sound lovely, they really are very good, but for me they don’t have the visceral impact and midband presence of an RVG cut. With Rudy’s vinyl the sax, snare, trumpet, toms etc have astonishing attack and slam, and I love that. Just so alive and exciting. Right in the room with you. I’ve not heard the Black Saint as I have a RVG-cut Impulse original, but I think I’ve heard enough to understand how Kevin Gray thinks now. I like his work and I’ll almost certainly buy a lot more, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d not swap an early US or Japanese cut for one (the Japanese stuff can be a bit bright, but they still have the midband presence and impact I seek). I’ve heard enough now not to duplicate.

Tony, I've not really found the Tone Poets in general to be too bright. One or two have been on the borderline. I remember the beginning of Jackie McClean's 'It's Time' making me jump out of my seat a bit at first - it certainly sounds hot, but I think that's probably true to the recording (and to Jackie Mclean). On the other hand, a direct comparison of the Classic 'Speak No Evil' with the Music Matters 33RPM, which is also Kevin Gray mastered, does suggest that he is taking a slightly different strategy recently - it is a tiny bit brighter. So I'd take this on a case by case basis (and maybe we should do that on a detailed comparison thread).

The Verve Black Saint is Ryan Smith rather than Kevin Gray. And I think he has a different signature again. For me it feels a bit more like a mild 10Khz emphasis, rather than presence region, but this is total guess-work and I have no engineering experience, so do take with a pinch of salt.

As for Japanese, I'd resist the brightness claim. I've done a lot of comparisons over recent years since my friend Paul (Mellstock) started importing them, and we've found the results are all over the place. E.g. we compared a Japanese reissue of Ornette Coleman's 'Something Else'- with an 80s Contemporary reissue, and the latter was significantly brighter. More recently, I've briefly compared the BN Classic reissue of Tyner's 'The Real McCoy' with an 80s Japanese pressing, and the Classic is clearer and brighter. I imagine the Japanese is probably closer to the RVG, but I've no reference for that claim. Yes, we've found brighter Japanese pressings - a Stones LP that to me was really hyped in the presence region (but some people love). But I think there is too much variation in Japanese pressings. I think the only generalisations we can really make are that the vinyl tends to be less flawed, and Japanese collectors take good care of them, making them an excellent investment.
The latest post on LJC has an interesting comparison about the quality of Japanese pressings with a link from it to an Ana(Dia)log YouTube video (scroll down to it) which makes a comparison of Herbie Hancock’s Head Hunters Album versions from Japan and Analogue Productions 33/3 version with particular to frequency balance and noise.
https://londonjazzcollector.wordpre...-muses-for-richard-davis-1969-mps-jp-tp-1974/
I wouldn’t want to read too much in to it as it is only one record and a larger sampling of different records and Audiophile and Japanese companies for both mastering and pressing plants used is really required.
Edited for couple of missing words.
 
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Interesting, I’ll watch that later. Headhunters is an album I’d really like a good copy of. I’ve only got digital (the Complete Columbia Albums and an SACD). and it always sounds very compressed to me. I’d love to hear the original US Columbia vinyl pressing just to hear what mastering choices were made at the time.
 
Interesting, I’ll watch that later. Headhunters is an album I’d really like a good copy of. I’ve only got digital (the Complete Columbia Albums and an SACD). and it always sounds very compressed to me. I’d love to hear the original US Columbia vinyl pressing just to hear what mastering choices were made at the time.

I have the Columbia Legacy CD and I'd agree with that. Two of the tracks are heavily compressed - Chameleon and Sly from memory, the other two are not that much better. I'd be very interested to know how the early vinyl sounds but it might not be much better. The Columbia Cds are not usually like this!
 
Interesting, I’ll watch that later. Headhunters is an album I’d really like a good copy of. I’ve only got digital (the Complete Columbia Albums and an SACD). and it always sounds very compressed to me. I’d love to hear the original US Columbia vinyl pressing just to hear what mastering choices were made at the time.
Yes pity he did not have an original to compare with as well as this would be more interesting. I expect the recording is compressed, but difficult to know definitively even with an original pressing as it was pressed at many different pressing plants (presumably from copy tapes) even in the US.
 
The latest post on LJC has an interesting comparison about the quality of Japanese pressings with a link from it to an Ana(Dia)log YouTube video (scroll down to it) which makes a comparison of Herbie Hancock’s Head Hunters Album versions from Japan and Analogue Productions 33/3 version with particular to frequency balance and noise.
https://londonjazzcollector.wordpre...-muses-for-richard-davis-1969-mps-jp-tp-1974/
I wouldn’t want to read too much in to it as it is only one record and a larger sampling of different records and Audiophile and Japanese companies for both mastering and pressing plants used is really required.
Edited for couple of missing words.

Do you know why LJC describes a rolled-off high end as characteristic of a digital master? I'm not sure I understand.
 
Do you know why LJC describes a rolled-off high end as characteristic of a digital master? I'm not sure I understand.
I’m not sure what he means either. For clarity what he says is:
“Secondly, the two pressing have broadly similar histograms until they reach the upper frequencies, where they part company. The Japanese pressing begins reducing the relative volume of higher frequencies from 10kHz, with little beyond 20kHz. That smells of a CD profile. Could it have been a characteristic of the Japanese audiophile source – a digital file for mastering CDs? Japanese engineers have rolled off the top-end highest frequencies, which are much stronger on the Analogue Productions issue (presumably on the original tapes)“.

I assume he means if Japanese engineers cut from a digital source for a vinyl master they then roll off the high frequencies to reduce potential digital artefacts (possibly from the brick-wall filtering) not that CD’s sound like that. In general my experience is the opposite in that actual CD’s sound brighter or edgier and why I still prefer LP’s. Good mastering engineers like Kevin Gray seem to be able to get the best out from even a digital source when mastering. Perhaps they learnt it from the Japanese? ;)
 
In general my experience is the opposite in that actual CD’s sound brighter or edgier and why I still prefer LP’s. Good mastering engineers like Kevin Gray seem to be able to get the best out from even a digital source when mastering. Perhaps they learnt it from the Japanese? ;)

Yes, that's largely my experience too. Though I think there are enough differences in frequency response and presentation between cartridges (and I guess phono stages) that direct comparisons between CD and vinyl masters isn't an exact science.

Your comment about Kevin Gray makes me suspect the mastering engineer is in fact the most important component. ;-)
 
Yes, that's largely my experience too. Though I think there are enough differences in frequency response and presentation between cartridges (and I guess phono stages) that direct comparisons between CD and vinyl masters isn't an exact science.

Your comment about Kevin Gray makes me suspect the mastering engineer is in fact the most important component. ;-)
I have found it quite difficult even to match volume with very a good sound level meter between Vinyl and CD’s to carry out fair comparisons and my pre amp has both input and output level controls as well as the volume control for each source. I don’t usually have much of a problem with different vinyl pressings though so it must be mainly down to the overall frequency profile (including that from cartridge and phono stage).

Re. mastering I was saying the same here a couple of pages back. ;)
 
I think just about all of my Japanese pressings are 1970s to early 80s. I have a couple earlier ones but very few later. I consistently like them. When I said they were often ‘bright’ I suspect I chose the wrong word. If I was to stereotype the treble tends to be very open, alive and dynamic. It is this I’m trying to articulate and I really like it. The recent comparison I did between the AS Blues And The Abstract Truth and my green-label Japanese copy really emphasised this, the snare, kit metalwork and brass are just way more dynamic and alive, the AS sounding lovely, but restrained and warm in comparison. I’d take the Japanese copy all day long, it is just more to my taste, though the AS is very nice too.
 
You are not alone - I don’t think LJC does either.
I have just found LJC’s updated on (24th December 21) full article on CD v Vinyl from where he has taken the section I posted about above. It does clarify his overall thinking a bit, but perhaps not by that much. He still claims vinyl is beats CD 90 - 95% of the time, but complains about most modern vinyl, but has good things now to say about some Audiophile reissues (Blue Note Tone Poet, Music Matters Jazz 33, Vinyl Classics Series, some Pure Pleasure). Some of that we had picked up on here before as a revision of his previous views. I remember he did not have much respect for Music Matters in the past and it would be interesting know which Pure Pleasures as some of these are not AAA.

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/for-audiophiles/cd-or-vinyl/

Scroll down to the comments as well where he says best CD system I have heard was Peter Qvortup’s home system, simply OMG!
 
I remember he did not have much respect for Music Matters in the past and it would be interesting know which Pure Pleasures as some of these are not AAA

I think his gripe with the earlier MM catalogue was that they were 45 rpm - I don’t recall him ever having reviewed any (correct me if I’m wrong). His loss, our gain - as you very well know.
 
Well with regard to Blue Note quality I see he has now moved Music Matters 33’s well Up his quality rankings to third place now. “Music Matters 33 appear for the first time on the upper floors”. Just below NY 62 - 66 titles and reissues with Van Gelder stamp and above Liberty’s with the first Japanese (early Toshiba’s) now coming in 6th. I think they were below the first Japanese ones before, but that possibly was just 45’s. Seems a bit strange as he does not specify SRX 33’s pressings and the non SRX, although post most MM 45’s, have been about a long time, but he notes this is “in general and from a larger sample now.

972-B1568-1239-442-C-81-B6-8-B509-BD8-A69-C.jpg

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpre...aphy-2/audio-quality-of-blue-note-recordings/
I was really reluctant to go with 2x45rpm’s at first until I got some MM’s and was a convert because ‘in general’, but not in every case, I now rate these overall as the best quality pressings pressings I have. I don’t though own any original Van Gelder stamped Blue Notes to compare with myself though. There are still some records I wouldn’t want them for though where the interrupt the music flow too much, but in most cases it is not a problem. With AS Verve reissues (to bring this a bit back on thread ;)) were I do have some VG first pressings I have found some better and some worst. Personally I am now priced out of the MM’s as much higher in price now than in the graphic above.
 
Anyone had a listen to Crescent yet?

I'm heading into town today and tempted to pick up a copy
Fraid not but if you do get it, let us know. I have a good Japanese copy but this is probably my favourite Coltrane (John) album so I'm tempted anyway.
 
I have multiple copies of Crescent, including the original mono and the 80s Japanese pressing that Sean alluded to, and have the AS on order, all of which are arguably pointless because, as Graham notes, the digital version in this case is excellent. But don't expect sanity from me with vinyl. I'm exactly the idiot consumer these re-issue labels dream of.
 
Anyone had a listen to Crescent yet?

I'm heading into town today and tempted to pick up a copy
The reports on the SH forum so far from the few who have received it and played it are that it is excellent, but I haven’t seen a comparison to an original pressing there so far. The is some complaints about the quality of the cover. Not sharp and pixelated possibly from just using a low resolution scan?

I have an original US Van Gelder stamped copy so I was going to pass, but I recently played it and it seems to have picked up a few ‘ticks’ so now I am tempted. Mine just may need a good clean though?
 
Ditto, I'd like to know too. Dithering as I have a decent sounding Capitol copy and dare I say it but the CD also sounds good.

I've also got the CD which more than holds its own against a Qobuz HR stream .. but it's one of my favourite Coltranes and I would love a decent vinyl copy.

I'm heading out in an hour to see the new Almodovar movie and am yet to decide whether to loop past Truck records who have been getting stock of this series. I've a feeling I might find it hard to resist.
 


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