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HORNS THE ULTIMATE HIFI SPEAKERS ?

Cheers Ian, i actually like the shape of the M2 more, but i'd have to have them veneered or something, no doubt they are better performers than 4367, i have heard the 4367 at the show in Cheshire i saw you at, but they didn't sound as good as they should do in the room they were in, i certainly thought my Arrays were better sounding, but you can really make a judgement at the show.
What set up have you got for the crossover on the M2's ?
 
I was having a read of the Lansing Heritage forum last night, lots of interesting projects going on, i'm tempted by some M2's now or a pair of the JBL 4367 which everyone seems to rate quite highly.

You should also check out the Klipsch Cornwall IV. These are half the price of the JBLs and are extremely good too. Also a similar size to the JBLs...

Cornwall-IV_American-Walnut_Left_NoGrille-1.jpg
 
Cheers Ian, i actually like the shape of the M2 more, but i'd have to have them veneered or something, no doubt they are better performers than 4367, i have heard the 4367 at the show in Cheshire i saw you at, but they didn't sound as good as they should do in the room they were in, i certainly thought my Arrays were better sounding, but you can really make a judgement at the show.
What set up have you got for the crossover on the M2's ?
I’ve got plans to improve the appearance of my M2s ;). I use two MiniDSP units for the DSP and my own amps / DACs. Deliberate choice in preference to the Crown amps that JBL recommend. I first heard the 4367s at the UK Distributors in a well set up room and that is where they sounded superb. I subsequently heard them at a show and they didn’t sound anything like - very boomy bass - so I concluded it was problems with the room.
 
I first heard the 4367s at the UK Distributors in a well set up room and that is where they sounded superb. I subsequently heard them at a show and they didn’t sound anything like - very boomy bass - so I concluded it was problems with the room.

Could have been the amplification too.
 
Unfortunately not. Many used Altec Lancing A2's, A4's, A5's, A7's etc but these were all ripped out many years ago. Cinemas today use powered active speakers similar to what is used in concert arenas, similar to these below:

preview.jpg
Err no, though it’s probably a long time since anyone watched a movie with sound over Altec systems, horns still used extensively, see JBL, LW, Danley, to name a few big players in the field.https://jblpro.com/product_families/high-powered-screen-arrays
https://lwspeakers.com/web/en/cinema-speakers/screen-systems.html
 
Err no, though it’s probably a long time since anyone watched a movie with sound over Altec systems, horns still used extensively, see JBL, LW, Danley, to name a few big players in the field.https://jblpro.com/product_families/high-powered-screen-arrays
https://lwspeakers.com/web/en/cinema-speakers/screen-systems.html

I remember in the 1990s cinemas were ripping out old horns in particular a lot of Altec models. I know this because I spoke with a lot of people who brought them to use as HiFi speakers. Even my local cinema at Watersmeet in Rickmansworth where I used to host the South East's Audiofair had a couple of Altec A5s hanging behind the stage. Any who came to my Audiofairs (up to 2000) should remember seeing them there. I also spoke with a few people who worked in the industry and said at the time the old horns were being replaced with modern active technology that interfaced with the latest modern projection equipment. Maybe the bigger cinemas have horns but I am pretty sure that the smaller local cinemas don't. Next time I am at the Everyman in Gerrards Cross I will ask them what they use for speakers. Also don't forget that the side and rear speakers in Cinemas providing surround sound are conventional active types.
 
Horns widely employed in Cinemas around the world (including surrounds- dependant on coverage and output requirements) see the SOTA Humax complex in Japan, 11 auditoriums one is dual purpose for live music/ cinema and so uses D&b line array the other 10 use JBL screen array systems incl surrounds employing horn/ waveguide HF .
 
You will also find them in many studios. JBL, Ocean Way et al. There are also the famous Rey Audio monitors that are said to be the dog’s knackers by many of those who have heard them.
 
https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/64783/
Interesting bit of research from a few years back on horn profiles/ neutrality, after 4 years they ended up with an 'ideal' horn profile very close to that employed by Tannoy in their dual concentric....
The 2432 Dolly Parton/ butt cheek horn in the 4430/35 is very good but the SAM1HF as used in the 1400 Array is better and to my ears has zero horn sonic signature, I use both on a daily basis and it's possible to hear the diffraction slot in the 2342 when you crank them up to admittedly silly levels.
 
Horns widely employed in Cinemas around the world (including surrounds- dependant on coverage and output requirements) see the SOTA Humax complex in Japan, 11 auditoriums one is dual purpose for live music/ cinema and so uses D&b line array the other 10 use JBL screen array systems incl surrounds employing horn/ waveguide HF .

Well that is good to hear but I am pretty sure the smaller local cinemas don't. I know one of the managers at our local Everyman and will ask him if I can take a look at what they use. They have 3 screens, two that hold up to 120 people each and one that holds about 50.
 
Ok there are technical reasons why line arrays aren't ideal for cinema systems and it's to do with directivity. Movie sound depends upon sound/ image location, line arrays tend to be weak in that regard and the use of point source systems is preferred, hence their overwhelming use in cinema sound.
It's worth noting that the individual line array elements will usually consist of 10" bass 5" mids and multiple HF compression drivers feeding a central diffraction horn/waveguide HF. So horns are even used in line array systems too- there's just a tall slim column of them...
 
https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/64783/
Interesting bit of research from a few years back on horn profiles/ neutrality, after 4 years they ended up with an 'ideal' horn profile very close to that employed by Tannoy in their dual concentric....
The 2432 Dolly Parton/ butt cheek horn in the 4430/35 is very good but the SAM1HF as used in the 1400 Array is better and to my ears has zero horn sonic signature, I use both on a daily basis and it's possible to hear the diffraction slot in the 2342 when you crank them up to admittedly silly levels.
Thanks for that, not seen it before. Have only skimmed it so far but one of the main findings seems to be that discontinuities at the horn mouth lead to adverse sonic effects. Joseph Crowe has sought to address this very issue with his unique exponential curve design; you’ll see that the curve on the mouth of his horns keeps on going right round to the back of the mouth.
 
Thanks for that, not seen it before. Have only skimmed it so far but one of the main findings seems to be that discontinuities at the horn mouth lead to adverse sonic effects. Joseph Crowe has sought to address this very issue with his unique exponential curve design; you’ll see that the curve on the mouth of his horns keeps on going right round to the back of the mouth.

Le Cléac’h also did a bit of research on that subject:

http://unepassionaudiophile.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Pavillon-JMLC.pdf

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I remember in the 1990s cinemas were ripping out old horns in particular a lot of Altec models. I know this because I spoke with a lot of people who brought them to use as HiFi speakers. Even my local cinema at Watersmeet in Rickmansworth where I used to host the South East's Audiofair had a couple of Altec A5s hanging behind the stage. Any who came to my Audiofairs (up to 2000) should remember seeing them there. I also spoke with a few people who worked in the industry and said at the time the old horns were being replaced with modern active technology that interfaced with the latest modern projection equipment. Maybe the bigger cinemas have horns but I am pretty sure that the smaller local cinemas don't. Next time I am at the Everyman in Gerrards Cross I will ask them what they use for speakers. Also don't forget that the side and rear speakers in Cinemas providing surround sound are conventional active types.

Many years ago, my best pals mother did a performance at a venue that had been used as a cinema. Lurking in a dusty corner was a HUGE mid horn driver that nobody seemed interested in. It was made by Swedish AGA (yes, the gas company), they where involved in sound in the old days, I think they where rip offs of Altec or Westrex. I was very tempted to take it with me...
 


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