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Anti-vaccine protesters… why?

The view of some people that global warming is a conspiracy (therefore I play no part in it), and covid is a conspiracy (any that's nothing to do with me at all either, I can't spread a non-virus) show's a complete contempt for anyone other than the I'm Out For Myself group. My rights are more important than my responsibilities. Let the vulnerable die or lock themselves away and let me carry on. And it's my right to fly to four skiing holidays per year. Always has been, since the beginning of time.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'd broadly put myself in a similar position, but I do still align firmly in the subjectivist camp on cable, mains and supports threads so I'm a little wary of throwing too many rocks.
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I see no conflict there. I mostly understand the science relating to audio (I certainly respect it!), but I will always buy stuff I personally like the sound of. I have never stated that I am pursuing accuracy, more selecting a compromise of my own choosing that works for me. I also apply other non-audio criteria to my choices in that I love restoring stuff, keeping it safe from landfill and putting back far more than I take out via sharing knowledge etc, i.e. there is a political aspect to my audio choices too. I have tried to move somewhere beyond consumerism.
 
Joe Hutch said:
I hesitate to describe myself as 'highly intelligent', but at least I'm aware of the limits of my knowledge, and therefore don't go round challenging the opinions of those with much greater knowledge and experience of things about which I know little or nothing. To do so might be a sign of something, but it's unlikely to be a sign of intelligence.
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The more I learn the more I see how little I know.
Yet still this is much more than so many others, usually the vocal ones
 
NeilR said:
the only thing i can think of is to start teaching critical thinking techniques to children at school so they can learn to filter out the worst excesses of the internet etc. It won’t help us immediately, but in time we might be able to move society onto saner ground.
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After spending yesterday afternoon with three kids (ages 15, 12 and 10), I’m convinced they are already applying more critical thinking than many adults.
 
k90tour said:
The view of some people that global warming is a conspiracy (therefore I play no part in it), and covid is a conspiracy (any that's nothing to do with me at all either, I can't spread a non-virus) show's a complete contempt for anyone other than the I'm Out For Myself group. My rights are more important than my responsibilities. Let the vulnerable die or lock themselves away and let me carry on. And it's my right to fly to four skiing holidays per year. Always has been, since the beginning of time.
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And that's practically the definition of today's right wing.
 
I have enough of a background in science to be able to follow some of the discussion around what Covid does and how the vaccines work. Its a challenge to communicate things well to a lay audience while maintaining scientific accuracy. One young researcher who is doing a great job is Dr Rob Swanda, who has recently completed a Ph.D on using m-RNA for other medical applications. Rob has posted a series of informative short videos on Youtube and his blog. As someone who has spent time developing educational materials in science I can only applaud his efforts!
https://www.drswanda.com/videos-english

One common accusation by anti-vaxxers is that the vaccines were 'rushed' or developed 'too quickly'. However a number of factors really helped to speed the vaccine development.

Firstly, researchers were able to physically isolate Covid-19 virus from humans affected by the disease. There are electron micrograph photos of virus particles emerging ('Alien-like') from smashed-up cells they've infected - look for the picture credited to Dr Katherine Davies on this page:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

Secondly, biochemists at the University of Texas were able to completely map the details of the spike protein and see where it attaches to human cells. See the picture credited to UT Austin, McClellan Lab on this page:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih...structure-reveals-targets-vaccines-treatments

and note that the structure was published as early as February 2020. The researchers spotted that the green strand at the top of the spike in that picture is the point of attachment and that was then an obvious target for the vaccine. All three vaccines approved in the UK work by covering that 'binding site' and reducing the amount of infection. Of course if you get a high 'viral load' (e.g. lots of virus) that may not be enough to give you complete immunity but it will greatly reduce the risk of death/hospitalisation.

On the 'delta variant' the vaccines still cover the protein spikes, but any virus particles that evade the vaccine are particularly good at reproducing themselves. So you may end up with a high viral load and become more ill than with the previous variants. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the vaccine though - it means that you really, really, should take it if Delta is around. One of the Swanda videos talks about Covid mutations:

Ooops, this comment turned out longer than I thought - hope its still useful!
 
dadgad said:
Firstly, researchers were able to physically isolate Covid-19 virus from humans affected by the disease. There are electron micrograph photos of virus particles emerging ('Alien-like') from smashed-up cells they've infected - look for the picture credited to Dr Katherine Davies on this page:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w
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Apparently not...
"By the way, whatever they are injecting into you, it can't be Covid, because Covid has never been isolated in a laboratory and isolated according to Koch's Postulates. Offically and legally then, it doesn't exist."

As quoted upstream and amongst anti-vaxxers everywhere. Nothing you can say will undue the original untruth.
 
I’m not sure we can be that categoric about beliefs and religion. Until a few years ago, many here, including myself, had a very strong belief saying that hi-fi was an important thing. In some threads you could easily replace the words “cables” and “mana” with the names of some deities.
 
My anti-vaccine Vegan brother in law and his partner both have got Covid in the past week, he's had a terrible time with the coughing, bad enough to have had an ambulance out.
My vaccinated sister in law and one of my nieces both have got Covid a couple of weeks back, they tested positive and felt unwell but no really bad or painful symptoms.
 
My vaccinated sister in law and her vaccinated hubby have had covid for a week.
She had to call an ambulance out for her hubby midweek, his temperature was dangerously high.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Any chance you could summarise please?
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It's a nuanced, detailed, view from a pro-vax psychiatrist and psychoanalyst as to how the handling and communication of the dominated political and to some extent scientific voices, particularly in the USA, has contributed to "vaccine-hesitancy" and downright anti-vax sentiment, rather than breaking it down.
 
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