Rega IO vs. Brio 2017
- Thread starter greg788
- Start date
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
My IO runs hot in summer so I use one of these USB-powered PC fan to blow air onto it. Now that temps are much cooler I don't need to put the fan on, but anytime the room temp exceeds 20 degrees C - which almost certainly won't happen again till next April or May - then I just put the fan on to keep it from getting hot and hopefully prolong its life, or unserviced life, rather.
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Hip-Priest
Not hip. Not a priest.
I do the same thing with my Brio - the fan being powered by my rPi.
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Hip-Priest
Not hip. Not a priest.
The Brio’s case acts as a heatsink for internal components, presumably the IO works the same way. Manually passing air over the case should aid heat dissipation.
Yes, probably. I understand that case works as heatsink for transistors. I do not think that other internal components benefit for it as air staying inside case and how much you can cool air inside box by only cooling box externally?
Probably Rega know what they doing and IO customers are not a people who run amplifier with 5 watts for long time as it was on test. More like under watt.
Probably Rega know what they doing and IO customers are not a people who run amplifier with 5 watts for long time as it was on test. More like under watt.
Robert
Tapehead
Oh goody, I shall enjoy dissecting and pissing all over that later.
jimmytwos
pfm Member
I guess the comments “I don't know that this is a terrible amplifier but when test after test makes me cringe, I have no choice but to withhold recommendation for Rega IO.”
Would read as never listened. I wonder if the individual who tested this device has ever heard an actual Hifi system lol.
Would read as never listened. I wonder if the individual who tested this device has ever heard an actual Hifi system lol.
Robert
Tapehead
So let's start with what the IO actually is, and the intended use case.
A very small amplifier with a 30w/8R rating, no 4R rating and occupying about half the volume of an old shoebox Nait, or Cyrus. Unless you've handled an IO you won't appreciate just how petite this amp actually is.
It is designed for use with small loudspeakers of limited LF bandwidth and a relatively benign loading, with MM vinyl as the primary source.
First let's look at the heat issue. Case sides reaching 45deg after 20+ minutes of sustained drive with test tones is not unusual. Go pull out an old Quad 405 (100w/8R) or Cyrus amplifier and try the same trick - you'll get a similar result. Moreover, 45 degrees is not 'burning hot'. Perhaps the reviewer has particularly sensitive hands.
In addition, this amplifier along with all Rega designs runs with higher than typical bias current - part of the design philosophy - if it ran cool it would be faulty. All Rega amplifiers contain thermal protection and will shut down if the output devices exceed a fixed point, which from my own testing is when the sinks/case gets to the mid 50 degrees.
Distortion and noise. Better than 0.05% and so not audible in the vast majority of use cases.
Distortion+noise appears to rise with output into 4R loads. It sure does - but look at the expanded scale - 1dB variance in the plot!
Utterly insignificant.
Crosstalk. The reviewer is fixating on the worst case figure of 30dB, which is at 20Khz where crosstalk will be inaudible.
At frequencies where this matters most it sits around -45dB. Not great but a function of cramming so much into a small case and likely capacitive leakage across cramped PCB tracks, but again it isn't high enough to impact soundstage and imaging. If it were, you'd never ever run a phono cartridge!
Phono RIAA and overall response.
It's largely flat but rolls down a little at the very top and bottom. An eminently sensible design choice for a budget amplifier of limited power destined for use with smaller loudspeakers. Extending LF response unnecessarily on the phono input with a small amplifier is asking for trouble. Rega sensibly avoid this pitfall. To be clear, the response is a paltry 0.75dB down at the audible extremes.
Dynamic or burst power is roughly double that of the RMS capability. This means that for a small amplifier the design focus has been placed squarely on performance under dynamic condition, I.e. music and not lab signals. Again, sensible design choices by Rega.
High headphone output impedance.
Yes, fair point, but typical for amplifiers which drive headphones by padding down the main output. It's a nice to have facility but no substitute for a dedicated headphone amp. I don't believe Rega claim otherwise.
You cannot have everything for £379, and certainly not for a UK built product.
Rega compromised wisely to suit the budget and intended use case.
A very small amplifier with a 30w/8R rating, no 4R rating and occupying about half the volume of an old shoebox Nait, or Cyrus. Unless you've handled an IO you won't appreciate just how petite this amp actually is.
It is designed for use with small loudspeakers of limited LF bandwidth and a relatively benign loading, with MM vinyl as the primary source.
First let's look at the heat issue. Case sides reaching 45deg after 20+ minutes of sustained drive with test tones is not unusual. Go pull out an old Quad 405 (100w/8R) or Cyrus amplifier and try the same trick - you'll get a similar result. Moreover, 45 degrees is not 'burning hot'. Perhaps the reviewer has particularly sensitive hands.
In addition, this amplifier along with all Rega designs runs with higher than typical bias current - part of the design philosophy - if it ran cool it would be faulty. All Rega amplifiers contain thermal protection and will shut down if the output devices exceed a fixed point, which from my own testing is when the sinks/case gets to the mid 50 degrees.
Distortion and noise. Better than 0.05% and so not audible in the vast majority of use cases.
Distortion+noise appears to rise with output into 4R loads. It sure does - but look at the expanded scale - 1dB variance in the plot!
Utterly insignificant.
Crosstalk. The reviewer is fixating on the worst case figure of 30dB, which is at 20Khz where crosstalk will be inaudible.
At frequencies where this matters most it sits around -45dB. Not great but a function of cramming so much into a small case and likely capacitive leakage across cramped PCB tracks, but again it isn't high enough to impact soundstage and imaging. If it were, you'd never ever run a phono cartridge!
Phono RIAA and overall response.
It's largely flat but rolls down a little at the very top and bottom. An eminently sensible design choice for a budget amplifier of limited power destined for use with smaller loudspeakers. Extending LF response unnecessarily on the phono input with a small amplifier is asking for trouble. Rega sensibly avoid this pitfall. To be clear, the response is a paltry 0.75dB down at the audible extremes.
Dynamic or burst power is roughly double that of the RMS capability. This means that for a small amplifier the design focus has been placed squarely on performance under dynamic condition, I.e. music and not lab signals. Again, sensible design choices by Rega.
High headphone output impedance.
Yes, fair point, but typical for amplifiers which drive headphones by padding down the main output. It's a nice to have facility but no substitute for a dedicated headphone amp. I don't believe Rega claim otherwise.
You cannot have everything for £379, and certainly not for a UK built product.
Rega compromised wisely to suit the budget and intended use case.
James Morris
pfm Member
I went on that site once.
Needless to say, when conducting test after test of my own, it made me cringe (the site that is).
If there was one thing I took from that site-
If they slam a product, it is likely very good.
Hence i suspect, If they praise something, it is likely poor.
Let's look at this so called write up.
Ask Rega if they are trying to compete with Asian manufacturers in budget audio products. I could be wrong, but I don't think they are.
They are trying to make audio equipment that is good, and affordable for what it is. With the belief that to keep a firm eye on quality and in a indirect way I suspect, cost, they have to keep what they can as close to home as possible. Or at least using suppliers that are easy to work with.
Some keep price under control by making things in china.
Some others keep price under control by keeping overheads in check, maintaining staff moral and keeping a very close eye on what is made. Oh and by not being greedy.
Competing? I'm thinking not.
James Morris
pfm Member
Science takes many forms. You could argue the human body is science. Hence what it can hear as well.
But if anybody ever brings that part of science into it, they are shot down, and told they are on the wrong site.
It isn't the 'Audio Science Review'.
It's the 'My measuring device love fest'.
Actually, considering how others bow down to the person with his specific measuring devices, it isn't far off a cult instead of a love fest.
I am signed up and follow ASR on occasions and find the measurements interesting but this blind condemning of products based solely on that does raise questions.
However, the test findings sometimes explain the audible result and it should at least put an end to 'all amplifiers sound the same' even for hard-core objectionists.
As to the IO, I haven't heard it but I said it before, it seems very good value for something made in the UK by a Specialist Hifi company.
However, the test findings sometimes explain the audible result and it should at least put an end to 'all amplifiers sound the same' even for hard-core objectionists.
As to the IO, I haven't heard it but I said it before, it seems very good value for something made in the UK by a Specialist Hifi company.
James Morris
pfm Member
Blimey. Whatever you do, don't go spouting (that'll be their words) all that on ARS.
If their God and his use and reading of his tools say it's bad, then its bad!!
They'll be after you like a pack of wolves (Actually sorry, that's being unkind to a pack of wolves).
Oh, and I'm not sure country of manufacture has much to do with it. Doesn't matter where you make it, there has to be compromises
seeformiles
pfm Member
Someone in that ASR thread said that Rega intentionally made the IO bad to make their more expensive amplifiers sound so much better by comparison.
I've yet to hear the IO but I think it is positioned more as a product designed for those just starting out in the hobby. Imagine someone who has never heard a piece of hi fi equipment before but wants to dip their toes in it — wouldn't something like the IO be a revelation to that person as to what hi fi is capable of? A perfect stepping stone to then move on to something better or different — perhaps?
I've yet to hear the IO but I think it is positioned more as a product designed for those just starting out in the hobby. Imagine someone who has never heard a piece of hi fi equipment before but wants to dip their toes in it — wouldn't something like the IO be a revelation to that person as to what hi fi is capable of? A perfect stepping stone to then move on to something better or different — perhaps?
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James Morris
pfm Member
So said person is one of the below.
1- An insider spilling the beans (I am doubting this). Afterall, who else could say this was the Rega philosophy regards the io? You'd have to be on the inside to know if that were true or not.
2- Someone with an axe to grind.
3- An idiot.
Tony L
Administrator
ASR focus on measurements and nothing else. They entirely exaggerate the significance of basically inaudible parameters. They also appear to have an agenda of promoting cheap unserviceable Chinese landfill junk over more established products, which given their focus on the inaudible makes little sense beyond ego/disruption to my eyes. Good click-bait I guess. FWIW I’d prefer to run a 50 year+ old 303 to anything they rant and rave about as it is clearly the green and sustainable thing to do, but I have my agenda too: just say no to flavour of the month landfill shit!
PS I bet the Rega Io is lovely and will still work and have value in 20+ years time.
PS I bet the Rega Io is lovely and will still work and have value in 20+ years time.
John Phillips
pfm Member
There is much symmetry between the ultra-subjectivist and ultra-objectivist attitude to audio.
It seems to me that the concept of "good enough for purpose" means nothing to either. Chasing some personal idea of "perfection" is, I quite understand, a valid way to pursue the hobby. But the distain of both sides for anyone who does not share the same obsession is very unattractive. And I observe that such extreme attitudes often lead to unacceptable intolerance.
The speaker measurements often include directivity. Easily audible and imho not to be under estimated when choosing as I have found out myself.