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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XV

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Yes that pesky EU oversight finally gone, clean beaches and rivers are so over-rated. Freedom to pollute that's what we need. Shareholders of UK water companies - trebles all round.
 
Taking back control...

What does a stream of raw sewage symbolise? Broken Brexit promises, for one
A Lords amendment sought to stop water companies dumping raw sewage – and 265 Tories voted against it.
This faecal matter has become a powerful symbol of modern Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...wage-symbolise-broken-brexit-promises-for-one
Heres how taking back control works. Conservative MPs from Scotland just voted to permit sewage in rivers in England when they couldn’t get away with it in their own country. No pesky oversight from the EU either.
 
I missed that yesterday, the old 'fellow travellers' trope that's so favoured of a certain kind of self-righteous EUphile.

I don't suppose there's a single choice, moral or otherwise, that any of us make that doesn't 'align' us with someone or something undesirable. Lots of good people voted for Blair - perhaps you did. That doesn't in itself mean that you agreed to the invasion of Iraq, or somehow bore responsibility for its outcomes. You made a moral judgement, and accepted its potential compromises. Where does this culpability end? Does the fact that you have enjoyed Wagner make you a Jew-hating acolyte of Adolf Hitler, or appreciated Eric Gill's bas-reliefs mean that you think its OK for a man to sleep with his daughter? Does the fact that you once walked down Piccadilly somehow align you with Stalin, Trotsky, Pinochet or Dr.Crippen, ffs?

I could have just left it sitting there, but this sort of desperate nonsense needs calling out.
I think, to be fair, you're not the normal gammon anti-foreigner. You at least make cogent arguments for your point of view, and I for one respect that. But we're a bit short of Brexiters on this thread, so I guess you'll have to do. :)
 
I missed that yesterday, the old 'fellow travellers' trope that's so favoured of a certain kind of self-righteous EUphile.

I don't suppose there's a single choice, moral or otherwise, that any of us make that doesn't 'align' us with someone or something undesirable. Lots of good people voted for Blair - perhaps you did. That doesn't in itself mean that you agreed to the invasion of Iraq, or somehow bore responsibility for its outcomes. You made a moral judgement, and accepted its potential compromises. Where does this culpability end?
I can agree that the fellow travellers trope is tiresome, especially if you don't align yourselves with the views they espouse. However, those fellow travellers were front and centre in the campaign, in essence they set the tone, and much of the appeal, for the Brexit camp. So if you find yourself on the same side of the argument as those, albeit for different reasons, you have nevertheless made a choice to support a cause which is being championed by those types, with those motivations. That's pretty inescapable.

I didn't vote for Blair, as it happens, but wasn't unhappy that Labour took power in 1997, but even if I'd voted for him, I don't recall anything in the manifesto about going to war in the Middle East. Contrast Brexit, where all this dirty linen wasn't merely on show if you knew where to look, it was paraded with pride.
 
I can agree that the fellow travellers trope is tiresome, especially if you don't align yourselves with the views they espouse. However, those fellow travellers were front and centre in the campaign, in essence they set the tone, and much of the appeal, for the Brexit camp. So if you find yourself on the same side of the argument as those, albeit for different reasons, you have nevertheless made a choice to support a cause which is being championed by those types, with those motivations. That's pretty inescapable.

I didn't vote for Blair, as it happens, but wasn't unhappy that Labour took power in 1997, but even if I'd voted for him, I don't recall anything in the manifesto about going to war in the Middle East. Contrast Brexit, where all this dirty linen wasn't merely on show if you knew where to look, it was paraded with pride.
I think EV is asking for credit for holding his nose and looking away.
 
If Tony Blair had said he was going to enter an illegal war in his manifesto, I wouldn’t have voted for him. Farage, Robinson, Banks, Mullet man, Rees-Mogg, Gove, that shit trumpet of a prime minister we have now are the Brexiteer’s fellow travellers. Don’t pretend to me you held your nose and followed their lead because you felt sorry for the Greeks…
 
If Tony Blair had said he was going to enter an illegal war in his manifesto, I wouldn’t have voted for him. Farage, Robinson, Banks, Mullet man, Rees-Mogg, Gove, that shit trumpet of a prime minister we have now are the Brexiteer’s fellow travellers. Don’t pretend to me you held your nose and followed their lead because you felt sorry for the Greeks…
The despised Blair was your own fellow traveller in 2016... Not that it’s important, or means anything, of course. This finger wagging at people about ‘fellow travellers’ is a meaningless strawman.

Talking of manifesto’s. The tories had a referendum on leaving the EU in their 2015 manifesto. What are your thoughts on those who voted in a way that took seats away from Labour in 2015, thus making a referendum on EU membership more likely?
 
I can agree that the fellow travellers trope is tiresome, especially if you don't align yourselves with the views they espouse. However, those fellow travellers were front and centre in the campaign, in essence they set the tone, and much of the appeal, for the Brexit camp. So if you find yourself on the same side of the argument as those, albeit for different reasons, you have nevertheless made a choice to support a cause which is being championed by those types, with those motivations. That's pretty inescapable.

I didn't vote for Blair, as it happens, but wasn't unhappy that Labour took power in 1997, but even if I'd voted for him, I don't recall anything in the manifesto about going to war in the Middle East. Contrast Brexit, where all this dirty linen wasn't merely on show if you knew where to look, it was paraded with pride.

If Tony Blair had said he was going to enter an illegal war in his manifesto, I wouldn’t have voted for him. Farage, Robinson, Banks, Mullet man, Rees-Mogg, Gove, that shit trumpet of a prime minister we have now are the Brexiteer’s fellow travellers. Don’t pretend to me you held your nose and followed their lead because you felt sorry for the Greeks…

The main driver behind the 'official' vote leave campaign was Daniel Hannan. He was still in short trousers when my Euroscepticism was forming, and until the period around the referendum I'd barely heard of him. I think Farage was involved with the so-called 'unofficial' grouping, which certainly didn't have any resonance with me.

So no, LS, no 'nose-holding', and I certainly did not 'follow their lead'.

I seem to recall that Tony Blair was vociferously bleating for the remain campaign. According to your childish 'fellow-travellers' trope, does that not align you with the man responsible for the Iraq war?

I think EV is asking for credit for holding his nose and looking away.

Aren't you the bloke who has a little bit of an issue with a Peruvian in the HoL, or have I muddled you with someone else?

...He’ll be sitting in ermine next to the other one who got his hands on the levers of power in the same manner, elected by no one- Baron Hannan of Lima.
 
^ we are the best. We have done more than any govt in recent decades. On anything you question.
Now which brazen liar started all this fake news crap and got away with it ?
Never be defensive, never apologise for mistakes simply double down with sweeping lies.
 
More real facts on the 'success' of Brexit.
UK port traffic down 21.2% from Dublin. The article explains the reasons and how trade is switching to the EU. No doubt the businesses in the EU will welcome the extra business gifted to them by Brexiteers. Meanwhile Frost continues to fart on about the NI protocol and the water company shareholders rejoice that they no longer have to worry about all those silly EU rules.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/20...n-port-traffic-down-3-3-in-first-nine-months/
 
MP says he would happy to swim in s***e... https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1453044438062731271

But can we guess which way he voted in the referendum? Hmmmm. Tricky one... o_O

Entirely fitting.
Reminiscent of Thatcher era agriculture minister Selwyn Gummer stuffing a spinal column CJD burger in his daughter’s face for the cameras.



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I see Tim Gammon of Wetherspoons has got his backhander in the budget. Shares of Spoons up 6%

This should cover the expected increase in prices of EU booze as well. Cunning.

I notice he claims that these ancient tax rules can now be changed because they have left the EU. Another Brexit bonus it seems regaining control of taxes on alcohol. Wonder why taxes on alcohol is so high in Norway it must be the EU's fault. Still sizeable part of the Brexiteer voters will be pleased that beer is now going to be cheaper.


Another damning confession by a UK diplomat. She must be a 'hard remainer'. Isn't that the go to one liner when faced with uncomfortable facts.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...sh-farmers-with-turnips-ex-diplomat-1.4711626
 
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I see Tim Gammon of Wetherspoons has got his backhander in the budget. Shares of Spoons up 6%

This should cover the expected increase in prices of EU booze as well. Cunning.
I’ve no idea if this is anything to do with leaving the EU, as has apparently been claimed, but who cares?

What have I missed? I’m not seeing much to complain about in the article.

Taxes on drinks including beer, wine and cider will be slashed after the chancellor announced the most sweeping changes to alcohol duty in living memory.

Announcing the move, Rishi Sunak, who is teetotal, said the UK’s system of alcohol duty, whose roots date back to 1643, was “outdated, complex and full of historical anomalies”.

Sunak described the five-point plan, which takes effect in 2023, as the biggest overhaul of alcohol duty for 140 years and claimed the changes had been made possible by the UK’s exit from the European Union.

In a measure he said would help pubs struggling because of the effect of the pandemic, the chancellor also announced “draught relief”, cutting the tax on drinks served from pumps, such as beer and cider, by 5%. The plan, which is estimated to cost the Treasury £100m a year, will reduce the cost of a pint of beer by 3p.

Shares prices in pub companies jumped immediately after Sunak spoke, with JD Wetherspoons gaining nearly 6%, Mitchells & Butlers3.8% and City Pub Group 2.3%.

More immediately, an increase in alcohol duty that was due to take effect from midnight on Wednesday will be cancelled, at a cost of £3bn.


The broadest change in five-pronged plan for alcohol duty involves, according to Sunak, a “radical simplification”, under which the number of bands at which different duties are levied will be cut from 15 to six.

Drinks will be taxed in line with how much alcohol they contain, a move the chancellor said was aimed at encouraging healthier choices.

{snipped something here about tw*tter}


But the pledge was accompanied by a significant overall cut in alcohol duties. Sunak also cut tax on sparkling wines such as prosecco, pointing to an increase in the number of people drinking them, which he said showed they were no longer elitist.

The move would help English winemakers, he said, because they typically made lower-strength wine and sparkling wines.

Small brewers already enjoy tax relief, a measure introduced when Gordon Brown was chancellor and credited with sparking a craft beer revolution.

Sunak announced a “small producers’ relief” that would boost firms that make cider with a strength of less than 8.5%.
 
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