Anti-vaccine protesters… why?

[Joe P]

Sorry, Paul.

It’s hard to guess the age of the fishy on the other end of the screen. :–)

Though, given that most of us remember buying new vinyl (note: no s) before vinyl’s revival it’s likely safe to assume the fishy has a cane and often shakes it vigorously at passing skateboard punks.

Joe

 

[Seanm]

My wife was desperate to be vaccinated due to her successful cancer treatment. Many cancer treatments reduce your immunity across the spectrum so she felt extra-vulnerable. Waiting for her body to re- normalise didn't make sense to my wife.

Sure, I’m not saying he’s right - I’ve tried to nudge him to get the vax - just that it’s not an incomprehensible way of thinking. And of course people respond in many ways to similar situations.

 

[Hook]

Sad.
I for one trust scientists.
I was more than happy to receive my first jab in April. I had been expecting it and was relieved when I got my second one.
Honestly I gave up trying to convince those FB informed people. They prefer being tested every other day and nothing will change their brainwashed minds.
Sad.

But how do we really know what's in those test swabs? The vaccine could be just a harmless head fake, and the government could actually using the test swabs to control us! My nostrils are my nostrils!

 

[Joe P]

Clive,

I guess I was being too obscure. This is how we used to gain natural immunity to some diseases before vaccines.

Joe

 

[Hook]

I guess there will always people who try to profit from the misery of others.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/health/medical-gloves-us-thailand-investigation-cmd-intl/index.html

 

[Bob McC]

Clive,

I guess I was being too obscure. This is how we used to gain natural immunity to some diseases before vaccines.

Joe

I was at primary school in the late 50s with a lad who contracted polio and spent a year in one of those “iron lungs”.

 

[Joe P]

Bob,

Aye. It’s not that vaccines are perfect or that they have zero risk, but it seems an entire generation or two has no idea what life (and death) were like before vaccines.

Joe

 

[wacko]

Thanks you prodded me to go googling https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/10/nhs-encourages-pregnant-women-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/

I know over here they were preventing spouses from visiting hospitals. There was a bit of noise around it but what transpired was a lot of pregnant women and their partners had not got vaccinated. To bring the point closer to Tonyl's question the footballer Callum Robinson went public on not having the vaccine. Transpires a lot of footballers are not getting vaccinated for a variety of reasons including believing it would make them sterol, wariness of putting drugs in their bodies and belief that being elite athletes they are well able to deal with covid.

Or they are just elite stupid

 

[Big Tabs]

it’s likely safe to assume the fishy has a cane and often shakes it vigorously at passing skateboard punks.

 

[Joe Hutch]

My father lost three sisters and his first wife to TB within the space of a few years. He never had any doubts about the value of vaccines for us.

re ‘natural immunity’, our childhood GP used to let his two baby daughters crawl around the waiting room of his surgery. If anyone asks him if he wasn’t afraid of them catching something, he’d reply that he actually wanted them to come into contact with as many germs as possible to build up their immune systems. (I’ve no idea whether this was sound science).

 

[chartz]

Bob,

Aye. It’s not that vaccines are perfect or that they have zero risk, but it seems an entire generation or two has no idea what life (and death) were like before vaccines.

Joe

Famously, when Pasteur invented the vaccine against rabies, people thought they would die after injection. Pasteur was declared a heretic until people finally came to reason.
But this was in the 19th century!

 

[MUTTY1]

re ‘natural immunity’, our childhood GP used to let his two baby daughters crawl around the waiting room of his surgery. If anyone asks him if he wasn’t afraid of them catching something, he’d reply that he actually wanted them to come into contact with as many germs as possible to build up their immune systems. (I’ve no idea whether this was sound science).

There was some research that found a young child’s immunity was greater if the child wasn’t born via caesarean. It was argued that it missed the huge variety of bacteria etc in the birth canal. This caused a practise during caesarean to ‘anoint’ the newborn with a vaginal swab.
Given the heated debate ongoing about natural v caesarean amongst the involved professionals this could of course be mis-information!

 

[mikemusic]

There was some research that found a young child’s immunity was greater if the child wasn’t born via caesarean. It was argued that it missed the huge variety of bacteria etc in the birth canal. This caused a practise during caesarean to ‘anoint’ the newborn with a vaginal swab.
Given the heated debate ongoing about natural v caesarean amongst the involved professionals this could of course be mis-information!

Read that in New Scientist a while back

 

[Paul L]

Medics, scientists, may have lost the trust of some large groups. They may believe that the establishment scientific community is not necessarily working for their best interests, they’re working for the best interests of industry and government - which functions to oppress them rather than help them to flourish.

that is a really interesting point and one of the threads behind my earlier post although mine was from a capitalist POV. As I understand it much of the research funding is from pharmaceutical companies with obviously vested interests in selling billions of their subsequent product. One mate of mine tells me that when the thalidomide scandal broke and the drugs banned in the UK it did not stop the owners ploughing on with selling it into other international markets even though the risks were established by then.

 

[Bob McC]

that is a really interesting point and one of the threads behind my earlier post although mine was from a capitalist POV. As I understand it much of the research funding is from pharmaceutical companies with obviously vested interests in selling billions of their subsequent product. One mate of mine tells me that when the thalidomide scandal broke and the drugs banned in the UK it did not stop the owners ploughing on with selling it into other international markets even though the risks were established by then.

Thalidomide is now a very effective drug used to treat brain cancer, kidney cancer, Kaposi’s sarcoma and multiple myeloma.

 

[Paul L]

The child immunity is an interesting point too. Off at a tangent I was reading about declining birth rate and could not help think of the B-movie Idiocracy which is both amusing/crass but poignant too!

 

[Spike]

Even more reason why schools should be teaching what constitutes a reliable source.

I was taught it at uni 30 years ago. When I went back to HE a few years back I was astonished how many students were using random YouTube videos as sources for their work - and not being challenged by the tutors.

OCR Twenty First Century Science GCSE course included a Case Study. This essentially was any scientific question with both sides of the argument. The reliability of sources had to be assessed. However, the Tory government abandoned this course. Oh guess who made that decision? Gove/Cummins. Funny that.

 

[Spike]

Sorry Joe
Don’t agree.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

If you are looking at any scientific article I would argue that it pretty much is. If you have concerns then look at the references within the article. I would suggest that it’s not reliable regarding many other things.

 

[Spike]

Along with smokers and alcohol users.

You could argue that they have contributed greatly with tax and duty and are entitled to full treatment.

 

[Yank]

People still want to practice their God-given right to spread disease and die.