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Anti-vaccine protesters… why?

Ever-increasing reason to be sceptical about the government and official narratives, ever more limited means of developing and channeling that scepticism in a rational manner, a digital economy based on innovating bullshit and conveying it with ruthless efficiency to optimised audiences - plus Boomers.

To keep things in perspective, historically there’s always been a fair bit of nuttery around vaccination, and government health interventions in general.
 
Or, at least, plenty more time for people stuck indoors to disappear down various internet rabbit holes and re-emerge with a full set of looney-tunes theories that they read somewhere down there ...

Even more reason why schools should be teaching what constitutes a reliable source.

I was taught it at uni 30 years ago. When I went back to HE a few years back I was astonished how many students were using random YouTube videos as sources for their work - and not being challenged by the tutors.
 
I’m curious as to the motivations of this anti-science idiocy. It is clear it emerges largely, thoigh not exclusively, from the political far-right (Q-Anon, Trump, furthest reaches of UKIP, the Tory Party and their equivalents), but I’m still baffled as to how/why it exists as it’s just so dumb. Anti-science nutter Piers Corbyn is in there, as I assume are the likes of David Icke, InfoWars etc. The thing that prompted this thread is some dickheads have just been arrested erecting gallows outside Westminster (BBC). It is bizarre as to my eyes there is no lockdown or anything to rail against. The UK has one of the worst records in the world for locking down too late, opening up too early and a bodycount to match. Plus vaccines aren’t mandatory here. Idiots are perfectly within their rights to refuse them.

There certainly seems to be an underlying globally-linked politics to it, e.g. I bet there is a wide overlap between anti-vaccine protests and the anti-democracy Trump fascists that stormed Congress in January. I’m sure there is a similar overlap with climate science denial. I don’t understand it at all, but it seems to be gaining traction.

Because we are sliding deeper and deeper into the CHAOS/Endarkenment...
 
The typical trumpian lardface is well represented. But so is the old hippie, the sociology student and the frustrated low earner, who are mainly found on the other side of the spectrum.

Taking part in anti-vaccine rallies is an activity open to everyone, no matter the IQ, and it gives the feeling of being part of a community. From left to right there are way enough dumb people who feel useless otherwise, so all colours gather there.

So a bit like buying a Harley-Davidson.
 
Even more reason why schools should be teaching what constitutes a reliable source.

I was taught it at uni 30 years ago. When I went back to HE a few years back I was astonished how many students were using random YouTube videos as sources for their work - and not being challenged by the tutors.
They are all taught this. And IME they all understand how misinformation works a lot better than their parents and grandparents.
 
Interestingly i have a leftish daughter living in France and they're all not vaccinating.

The only justification i can get from them is that they don't like the fascist government so any opportunity to disobey is taken.

These are supposedly well educated people, many are also resistant to other vaccinations but i think i've just about managed to talk her into getting my grandchildren done.

Job for today is finding out where i can get a booster.
I thought general vaccination was compulsory in France to attend school.
 
I know a few, don’t really know the underlying reason of one of them, not asked and not been told, his choice, no problem. The other one, purely down to not trusting the vaccine, released too soon to be safe.
That’s the argument I get.
The vaccine is unsafe, not thoroughly tested, rushed, new tech, evidence being censored, etc.
 
The Trumpian right are being clever about this: saying vaccination is good but vaccine mandates bad. This gives them an out to vaccinate personally (quite large number of boosters in USA already) but to use anti-vaxxers politically in name of freedom. It also will not have escaped their attention that a disproportionate number of non-Republican voters are getting sick...
 
I know one, though she is a vegan and doesn’t want the vaccine due to animal testing/vivisection etc (she is very careful about what she buys/consumes). I can respect that as a compassionate belief set and wouldn’t place her in the ‘anti-vaccine’ camp. It’s a different thing.

Yes, but is it fair? 90% get vaccinated, and run whatever risks to keep themselves and everyone else safe. She does not, and could help to transmit the virus or to keep it alive for the future.
We elect a government, which then on the basis of scientific knowledge decides everyone should vaccinate.
A bit like conscientious objection; noble convictions of the individual, but the others have to go off and have their arses shot off to defend the CO's right to be a CO.
 
The AoS thread is instructive in this regard. Basically the theory is that a bunch of 'bad guys' (Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci and Big Pharma) created Covid and/or are promoting vaccines with the twin aims of increasing their personal wealth and enslaving the populace. The only person able to take on these bad guys was Donald Trump, who was himself supported by mysterious 'good guys' who would somehow save the world.

If you delve into the links provided to 'prove' all this nonsense, there's a close connection to people advocating anti-semitism and Holocaust denial as part of the Big Conspiracy Theory. I got hoofed for pointing this out.

Get your own back, start a foo cable company and rock up there with a new account, you will make out like a bandit.
 
They are all taught this. And IME they all understand how misinformation works a lot better than their parents and grandparents.

That's good to hear Sean - I didn't know that. What class is it covered in?

I'm basing this largely on my experience of being in HE classes where no one seemed to even understand what constituted a primary source - never mind reliability, bias, currency etc.
 
Yes, but is it fair? 90% get vaccinated, and run whatever risks to keep themselves and everyone else safe. She does not, and could help to transmit the virus or to keep it alive for the future.

I can’t really object as I’m fundamentally anti-authoritarian myself. I respect people’s freedom of choice, including employers, venues, transport providers etc to refuse employment, admission etc of people who refuse. Everyone should make their own choice. As I say I respect the morality here, though as someone who also supports animal rights I made a different choice.

A bit like conscientious objection; noble convictions of the individual, but the others have to go off and have their arses shot off to defend the CO's right to be a CO.

I don’t see the comparison as so few if any wars this country has been involved in are defensive acts. I’d have fought in WWII had I known about the concentration camps and understood exactly what fascism was, but screw WWI, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc. No way in hell would I put my life at risk for right-wing ideology/imperialism, the conservative establishment, wealthy people’s “property”, monarchs or bullshit like that.
 
I’m curious as to the motivations of this anti-science idiocy. It is clear it emerges largely, thoigh not exclusively, from the political far-right (Q-Anon, Trump, furthest reaches of UKIP, the Tory Party and their equivalents), but I’m still baffled as to how/why it exists as it’s just so dumb. Anti-science nutter Piers Corbyn is in there, as I assume are the likes of David Icke, InfoWars etc. The thing that prompted this thread is some dickheads have just been arrested erecting gallows outside Westminster (BBC). It is bizarre as to my eyes there is no lockdown or anything to rail against. The UK has one of the worst records in the world for locking down too late, opening up too early and a bodycount to match. Plus vaccines aren’t mandatory here. Idiots are perfectly within their rights to refuse them.

There certainly seems to be an underlying globally-linked politics to it, e.g. I bet there is a wide overlap between anti-vaccine protests and the anti-democracy Trump fascists that stormed Congress in January. I’m sure there is a similar overlap with climate science denial. I don’t understand it at all, but it seems to be gaining traction.
Politically I am all over the place, left wing in some areas more rightward in others. On this subject I am pretty unequivocal, we should find an island somewhere cold & within our borders & just deport them.

The other alternative is to send in the riot squad with maximum prejudice. They are utter scum the lot of them.
 
I can’t really object as I’m fundamentally anti-authoritarian myself. I respect people’s freedom of choice, including employers, venues, transport providers etc to refuse employment, admission etc of people who refuse. Everyone should make their own choice. As I say I respect the morality here, though as someone who also supports animal rights I made a different choice.



I don’t see the comparison as so few if any wars this country has been involved in are defensive acts. I’d have fought in WWII had I known about the concentration camps and understood exactly what fascism was, but screw WWI, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc. No way in hell would I put my life at risk for right-wing ideology/imperialism, the conservative establishment, wealthy people’s “property”, monarchs or bullshit like that.

I take your points, but in the Covid emergency I'm not sure I agree with you. All those who refuse to vaccinate or to wear masks, for that matter, are, yes, exercising their individual freedom, but they are also threatening mine by forcing me to continue vaccinating, wearing a mask and risking infection in the present and the future. I've been vaccinated three times, so far, and by doing so I have helped lower the risk of infection also for those who refuse to vaccinate, while running the risks that they see in the new vaccines. So, yes, freedom of choice, but some moral question marks.
 
I haven’t been able to work out if anti vaccine protesting is left wing, right wing, anti authoritarian, fascist, woke or just plain obstinacy of human nature and free will. We should question and call to task issues such as this but equally if we want to work or travel and to do so have to prove a vaccine passport then we have to suck it up. Assuming we can’t just sit back and let others suck it up and deliver all the food and other essentials we think we ‘have a right to’ free gratis.
 
If people don't want to get vaccinated leave them to it, but put them at the bottom of the list for an icu bed.
 
The conspiracy theorists and their behaviour fascinate me. I've quietly followed a couple on Facebook and they are very easily led.

I found an explanation on Youtube by a psychologist about how people likeTrump appeal to a certain group and that they meet a need for a simple explanation of society. We the good, they the bad. It was the same after WWI in Germany. Blame it on the Jews. Simple.
It's very easy to swallow and is just what many people are wanting to hear.

And as has been mentioned upstream, religion plays a similar role. It provides an explanation of our existence. The whole of humanity in a single book.

The BBC , during this pandemic, have had a reporter trying to counter the anti-vax message. In typical BBC manner, it is very childish reporting. Basically repeating the Government message. But in no way questioning the motives of the anti-vaxxers and the theories that they support.

One of the cause of protests is a book by someone connected to the World Economic Forum called The Great Reset.
It is a theoretical review on how the pandemic may change the world economy. Of course it has been seized by the David Icke brigade as something that has some executive and part of a state control.
People like Icke, then discuss the book in a context that supports their business.
Many of there people protesting about the Great Reset have never read the book, they only know what David Icke and others say about it.
Russell Brand is the same. Someone I know shared a video that he made about a talk at the World Economic Forum. He played a clip of a man giving a talk as proof that governments were conspiring. But what he doesn't say was that this man may have been in a room all on his own with the camera and is unknown to anybody with any influence.
But Brand has a business to sell. And a large gullible audience.

It's frustrating and fascinating.
 
Something that I frequently read on Facebook, is that there is no Covid and no pandemic. And that therefore every medic is part of a conspiracy. That thousand of doctors and nurses have been told to play a role in misleading the public or face the sack.
It's bonkers.
Hence the threats against doctors and nurses of late.
 


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