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Fixing harsh vocals on p3esr xd

Y

yunie_

pfm Member
I'm using hegel h190 and rme adi-2 with my p3esr xd on a desktop system.

The thing is, when using with my atc 11, there is no such harshness in certain YouTube videos. P3esr xd however, reveal those harshness.

I sincerely believe that this has to do with my room and since I am not willing to do room acoustics, I am looking to eq it with my rme adi-2 which has a very useful equaliser which I can highly customise the eq curve.

However, I do not have a mic to calibrate. Any tips on how to know what is the harsh frequencies and tune it down accordingly?
 
Have you played with toe in? I’ve found that can make a significant difference, especially in smaller rooms where the high frequencies are bouncing off adjacent walls.
 
If used in near-field on a desk it's more than likely the speaker balance itself you find objectionable. You could EQ with the RME, try around 1k.
 
barryb said:
If used in near-field on a desk it's more than likely the speaker balance itself you find objectionable. You could EQ with the RME, try around 1k.
Click to expand...
That is true!

In that case, yes, EQ them, or buy a speaker that you like.:D
 
How far are you sitting from the speakers and how big is the room?
If you're very close, and the room isn't tiny then it's effect on the midrange may be minimal in theory.
You could try playing with toe-in as it will affect the amount of top-end and likely exaggerate the 'BBC' dip built into speakers of this pedigree which could help take the edge-off forward vocals.
Using PEQ in the RME is a good idea to really dial it in to preference. This frequency cheat sheet might be a helpful?

fetch
 
Linnfomaniac83 and barryb beat me to it while I was searching for that image :)
Unfortunately can't find any measurements of the latest XD harbeth models which could offer a clue.
 
Sorry to hear this problem. Not too long ago I had the p3esr ( not the xd) .with one British amp the sound was sterile and not at all pleasant . Not harsh but just not involving

Changed to another British amp and the sound was wonderful, smooth , liquid and really involving. Both times using a valve dac

So are there any other dacs you could try or other amps to play with these mega mega popular speakers that have a MASSIVE following. I never cease to be amazed at the hundreds of folks that join the harbeth FB group from all over Asia and the world each month
 
yunie_ said:
The thing is, when using with my atc 11, there is no such harshness in certain YouTube videos. P3esr xd however, reveal those harshness.
Click to expand...

I suspect it is just that you don’t like the Harbeth presentation. If the problem exists there, but doesn’t on the ATCs, then it isn’t a source issue and trying to notch-out something you don’t like will likely be frustrating and ineffective. Given how specific the issue I’d personally just flip them for another speaker. There are a lot of very good mini-monitors around at the moment.
 
@yunie_ What happens to the harshness you report when you put different loads (1kg/2kg/4Kg..) onto each p3esr?
 
Perhaps the treble response of the XD has been tweaked to sound too bright?? The iteration from P3ESR to P3ESR Anniversary has resulted in a brighter sound. The XD is even brighter?

Personally I would not expect a Harbeth to sound harsher than the ATC. I would expect it to be the other way round.
 
From my experience,

M30 (rolled off treble, dead)
M30.1 (brighter treble, still sound warm)
M30.2 (even brighter, not as warm)
M30.2 XD ?
 
ryder said:
Personally I would not expect a Harbeth to sound harsher than the ATC. I would expect it to be the other way round.
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My hunch is it’s not brightness at all, maybe just that the OP doesn’t like the transition from plastic bass mid to metal dome tweeter. FWIW I’ve bought and flipped two larger Harbeths for just this reason. I love the speakers as a whole, but there is something in that crossover region I just can’t live with (I’ve owned C7ES and SHL5). I hear it as an artefact on vocal sibilance that simply isn’t there at all on other speakers. By saying that I thought modern models had been tweaked, and I’ve not heard them so have no view. I’m only commenting on the two models I’ve actually owned.
 
System balance is the key for me.

I use Linn Kans in a smallish listening room which can be shouty / bright in the wrong system. A Burr Brown based DAC and a powerful but smooth sounding amp makes the overall presentation very musical and tonally balanced.
 
I'd be inclined to think it's not your type of speaker, I can't get along with metal domes and tried a few with and sold them all in the end, even my Harbeths.
 
Tony L said:
My hunch is it’s not brightness at all, maybe just that the OP doesn’t like the transition from plastic bass mid to metal dome tweeter. FWIW I’ve bought and flipped two larger Harbeths for just this reason. I love the speakers as a whole, but there is something in that crossover region I just can’t live with (I’ve owned C7ES and SHL5). I hear it as an artefact on vocal sibilance that simply isn’t there at all on other speakers. By saying that I thought modern models had been tweaked, and I’ve not heard them so have no view. I’m only commenting on the two models I’ve actually owned.
Click to expand...
Your observation is rather spot-on. The Harbeth designer once explained that one of the improvements of the Harbeth SHL5+ (over the older model) includes a smoother or more seamless integration between the bass, midrange and treble drivers. The result is an overall smoother sound. Similarly I experienced a slight metallic harshness or sibilance with the SHL5 in certain frequencies although the treble generally sounds smooth and rounded as opposed to brightly lit and extended.

FWIW the newer SHL5+ does not show this sibilance or harshness. I presume the designer did manage to tweak the speaker to sound smoother. I'm not so sure about the Anniversary and latest XD models though. Looking at the evolution of the Harbeth models, it appears that the new models might have been made to sound more open and transparent and perhaps more revealing in the upper registers which may have caused some recordings to sound a tad bright. After all, XD stands for Extra Definition.
 
amazement said:
I'd be inclined to think it's not your type of speaker, I can't get along with metal domes and tried a few with and sold them all in the end, even my Harbeths.
Click to expand...
Same situation for me regarding metal dome tweeters. They are usually very impressive at first but tiring/fatiguing on the long term for my sensitive ears.
 
yunie_ said:
I'm using hegel h190 and rme adi-2 with my p3esr xd on a desktop system.

The thing is, when using with my atc 11, there is no such harshness in certain YouTube videos. P3esr xd however, reveal those harshness.

I sincerely believe that this has to do with my room and since I am not willing to do room acoustics, I am looking to eq it with my rme adi-2 which has a very useful equaliser which I can highly customise the eq curve.

However, I do not have a mic to calibrate. Any tips on how to know what is the harsh frequencies and tune it down accordingly?
Click to expand...

If you were using a valve amplifier (w/ high output impedance), like a Prima Luna, the impedance of the P3ESR is very high in the treble.

edit: I see you have a Hegel...

810Harfig1.jpg

Harbeth P3ESR (source)

1209ATCfig1.jpg

ATC SCM 11 (source)
 
yunie_ said:
I sincerely believe that this has to do with my room and since I am not willing to do room acoustics, I am looking to eq it with my rme adi-2 which has a very useful equaliser which I can highly customise the eq curve.
Click to expand...

If there's "harshness" with the Harbeths but not the ATCs I wouldn't blame the room.
 
yunie_ said:
I'm using hegel h190 and rme adi-2 with my p3esr xd on a desktop system.

The thing is, when using with my atc 11, there is no such harshness in certain YouTube videos. P3esr xd however, reveal those harshness.

I sincerely believe that this has to do with my room and since I am not willing to do room acoustics, I am looking to eq it with my rme adi-2 which has a very useful equaliser which I can highly customise the eq curve.

However, I do not have a mic to calibrate. Any tips on how to know what is the harsh frequencies and tune it down accordingly?
Click to expand...

What's the source feeding the RME DAC, and which filter settings are you using?
I use one and it's very unforgiving of issues both up- and downstream.
 
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