LS3/5a question

[GF670]

I've been reading a lot about LS3/5a speakers recently, and am becoming more and more tempted to to try a pair. I notice that some are 15 ohm (e.g. the Falcons) and some 11 ohm (e.g. the Stirling V3). To what extent, if at all, does this have an impact? I would be using my Radford STA 25 power amp, which has 4, 8 and 16 ohm taps.

 

[Tony L]

The 15 Ohm version is the original BBC design, the 11 Ohm a slight rework to cope with a driver spec change from Kef (the B110). They should sound pretty much identical being an LS3/5A, though one can argue the 15 Ohm is more valve-friendly. The Radford will have no issues whatsoever with either.

PS I am describing original LS3/5As here. Many of the recent examples (Stirling, Graham etc) actually aren’t as they don’t use a T27 or a B110, let alone the BBC crossover design. Better to view those as being ‘in the spirit of an LS3/5A’. The Falcon is the only actual LS3/5A on the market, i.e. true to the 1970s BBC design and specification.

 

[GF670]

The 15 Ohm version is the original BBC design, the 11 Ohm a slight rework to cope with a driver spec change from Kef (the B110). They should sound pretty much identical being an LS3/5A, though one can argue the 15 Ohm is more valve-friendly. The Radford will have no issues whatsoever with either.

PS I am describing original LS3/5As here. Many of the recent examples (Stirling, Graham etc) actually aren’t as they don’t use a T27 or a B110, let alone the BBC crossover design. Better to view those as being ‘in the spirit of an LS3/5A’. The Falcon is the only actual LS3/5A on the market, i.e. true to the 1970s BBC design and specification.

Thanks Tony, that's really helpful. Just to confirm, it's a new (or relatively new) pair that I would be looking for. I had been thinking either the Stirling V3 or Falcon Gold Label. Interesting to know that the Falcon is the only one that follows the original specification.

 

[Tony L]

Interesting to know that the Falcon is the only one that follows the original specification.

It is down to the original Kef drivers not being available. Exactly re-manufacturing a vintage driver is a remarkably awkward and costly thing to do as materials and technology move on. Falcon decided to go this route, and it appears the current company using the ‘Rogers’ brand has done something similar, though I don’t know the detail here. Don’t be put off Stirling & Graham, they are lovely speakers and some prefer them to more authentic/real LS3/5As. Definitely try them.

I went with a second-hand pair of Falcons as I wanted to try a ‘real’ pair of LS3/5As to better understand what all the fuss was about without the risk of buying a potentially off spec pair of 15 Ohm ‘70s originals. My JR149s taught me these old Kef drivers can certainly drift (I had to replace them all as they no longer behaved as a pair).

 

[hifi_dave]

I'd add the Rogers LS3/5A and Harbeth P3ESR XD to that list.

 

[PerF]

Thanks Tony, that's really helpful. Just to confirm, it's a new (or relatively new) pair that I would be looking for. I had been thinking either the Stirling V3 or Falcon Gold Label. Interesting to know that the Falcon is the only one that follows the original specification.

What I would suggest too, the Asia collector prices of old LS3/5a are running crazy wild for now.
Never heard Falcons but Stirling and they were great for what they are.

 

[Nagraboy]

I might be having a change around soon, so my Falcons could be available.

I’ve not used mine with a Radford but have used a Quad 3O3 and Leak Stereo 20 to great effect. The Radford should be very nice too.

 

[Jodet]

The LS3/5a holy grail is a 15 ohm pair running off a tube amp with 16 ohm taps.

BTW, I'd had the Stirlings and the Falcons. Falcons - DEFINITELY. The MoFi (by Falcon) edition are 15 ohms and the only 'authentic' LS3/5a you can buy - in other words real KEF drivers.

 

[amazement]

I might be having a change around soon, so my Falcons could be available.

I’ve not used mine with a Radford but have used a Quad 3O3 and Leak Stereo 20 to great effect. The Radford should be very nice too.

I’d be interested in your Falcons if you decide to sell.

 

[Nagraboy]

I’d be interested in your Falcons if you decide to sell.

I expect quite a few would! We’ll see.

 

[TLS]

I have been reading that the Falcon Gold Badge betters many more expensive systems on midrange. What i'd realy want to know is how much of the more expensive systems or any others beats them. I mean, are they really the best? Midrange is where the music speaks so which speakers does beat them? Please enlighten me.

 

[Nagraboy]

I have been reading that the Falcon Gold Badge betters many more expensive systems on midrange. What i'd realy want to know is how much of the more expensive systems or any others beats them. I mean, are they really the best? Midrange is where the music speaks so which speakers does beat them? Please enlighten me.

There are loads of speakers which beat the LS3/5a in all sorts of areas - they’re a tiny speaker which doesn’t play really loud and has limited bass, even for a mini-monitor. The Harbeth P3ESR is a tiny bit better overall in those areas (and I’ve owned both), but it’s a matter of taste. Don’t buy an LS3/5a because you heard it’s ‘the best’. You have to decide what’s important to you. Sadly, it’s hard to get a demo of the Falcons anywhere, although I managed to hear them at Zouch Audio in Leicestershire before buying my pair.

 

[PerF]

There are loads of speakers which beat the LS3/5a in all sorts of areas - they’re a tiny speaker which doesn’t play really loud and has limited bass, even for a mini-monitor. The Harbeth P3ESR is a tiny bit better overall in those areas (and I’ve owned both), but it’s a matter of taste. Don’t buy an LS3/5a because you heard it’s ‘the best’. You have to decide what’s important to you. Sadly, it’s hard to get a demo of the Falcons anywhere, although I managed to hear them at Zouch Audio in Leicestershire before buying my pair.

LS3/5a are not universal by any means IMO
Voice and mids are great but music consist of more than that.

They are nice to have but value seem to have reached insane levels, I wouldn't live with them as main speaker.

 

[Tony L]

The thing to grasp with the LS3/5A is they are amongst very, very few mini-monitors that sound truly superb with a relatively small valve amp. There are many, many very good small speakers out there, but most of them force you to use solid state muscle amps, which for many of those drawn to LS3/5As is just a total deal-breaker. My 10-12 Watt Stereo 20 or TL12 Plus sound seriously good driving them, and they’d not stand a chance into many reactive ported 4 Ohm modern minis.

The opening post is seeking a small speaker for a Radford STA25, which is a far more powerful amp than my Leaks, but even so LS3/5As need to be on the list. I’d also look at whatever ProAc have as their current Response 1SC replacement (D2?) as they were always valve-friendly speakers, and I’m sure there are other options, but many modern small speakers really are non-starters that will suck all the life and magic out of a nice valve amp.

 

[Martyn Miles]

The 15 Ohm version is the original BBC design, the 11 Ohm a slight rework to cope with a driver spec change from Kef (the B110). They should sound pretty much identical being an LS3/5A, though one can argue the 15 Ohm is more valve-friendly. The Radford will have no issues whatsoever with either.

PS I am describing original LS3/5As here. Many of the recent examples (Stirling, Graham etc) actually aren’t as they don’t use a T27 or a B110, let alone the BBC crossover design. Better to view those as being ‘in the spirit of an LS3/5A’. The Falcon is the only actual LS3/5A on the market, i.e. true to the 1970s BBC design and specification.

I would never argue with Tony ( ! ) but when the Stirling V2 came out Derek Hughes said it met the BBC specification.
According to the BBC, there was a need for a small monitor and one was built. Using Kef drive units.

I agree with Tony that the Falcon is the closest to the original as it uses the same divers.
It’s a complicated world, is the world of the LS3/5a.

I have owned many LS3/5as, including the Falcon, but settled on the Stirling V3.
We all make our own choices...

 

[Tony L]

I would never argue with Tony ( ! ) but when the Stirling V2 came out Derek Hughes said it met the BBC specification.

To do that you’d need to be able to put the Stirling on one side of a stereo pair and a ‘70s Rogers or Spendor on the other and not be able to tell the difference. Not an easy thing to achieve with totally different drivers and crossover network! I have huge respect for Stirling, and they are good speakers, but I smell marketing there! He probably means it has a similar frequency response, but I’d be beyond amazed if it would meet the BBC requirement of being able to pull any two out of the store and have a matched pair.

PS I suspect this spec only applies to 15 Ohm or 11 Ohm LS3/5As, i.e. you’d not make a pair with one of each. This spec applied to 5/8s too, though they were kept with their own calibrated amp (a modified active Quad 405), again if one broke in a studio it could be matched with any other.

 

[Martyn Miles]

I have been reading that the Falcon Gold Badge betters many more expensive systems on midrange. What i'd realy want to know is how much of the more expensive systems or any others beats them. I mean, are they really the best? Midrange is where the music speaks so which speakers does beat them? Please enlighten me.

I chose my V3s on their midrange quality.
When first set up, it was the midrange which I first noticed.
Its almost holographic quality.

Images floating in space and superb details of the music revealed.
I’d not heard that with any other ‘3/5as.
The bass end was also subjectively deeper.

I understand the Falcon Gold Badge is an improvement on the Falcons I owned.

If anyone wants to hear my V3s I am happy to demonstrate them.

 

[Martyn Miles]

Don’t forget, Tony, that an old ‘70s LS3/5a may well be out of spec. by now, due to ageing.
Doug Stirling told me that ‘3/5as sent in for repairs were often out of spec.
Mainly to the B110s being decades old.

 

[GF670]

The thing to grasp with the LS3/5A is they are amongst very, very few mini-monitors that sound truly superb with a relatively small valve amp. There are many, many very good small speakers out there, but most of them force you to use solid state muscle amps, which for many of those drawn to LS3/5As is just a total deal-breaker. My 10-12 Watt Stereo 20 or TL12 Plus sound seriously good driving them, and they’d not stand a chance into many reactive ported 4 Ohm modern minis.

The opening post is seeking a small speaker for a Radford STA25, which is a far more powerful amp than my Leaks, but even so LS3/5As need to be on the list. I’d also look at whatever ProAc have as their current Response 1SC replacement (D2?) as they were always valve-friendly speakers, and I’m sure there are other options, but many modern small speakers really are non-starters that will suck all the life and magic out of a nice valve amp.

Those are my thoughts exactly. My intention in buying the Radford was to use it with some big Tannoys (which I'm still looking for!) but having read about how nice LS3/5As are, in particular with valve amps and the kind of music I find myself listening to a lot these days (particularly folk and jazz), I'm interested in trying a pair.

 

[amazement]

There are loads of speakers which beat the LS3/5a in all sorts of areas - they’re a tiny speaker which doesn’t play really loud and has limited bass, even for a mini-monitor. The Harbeth P3ESR is a tiny bit better overall in those areas (and I’ve owned both), but it’s a matter of taste. Don’t buy an LS3/5a because you heard it’s ‘the best’. You have to decide what’s important to you. Sadly, it’s hard to get a demo of the Falcons anywhere, although I managed to hear them at Zouch Audio in Leicestershire before buying my pair.

So prior to going to Zouch you never heard 35a’s before?
I heard and played music on JR149’s and thought them fabulous, ok it it was 1978 but my recollection is still clear.
If 35a are anywhere approaching what I heard in 1978 on 149’s then I think they’ll suit me. I’m not a fan of Bass heavy speakers as certain frequencies don’t play too well with me.