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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIII

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Spraggons Den said:
I am surprised this argument is still rumbling on five years after the referendum. Most people who voted Leave did so because they saw the EU as an unnecessary layer of supranational government and would have voted in the same way regardless for the red bus.

In the aftermath of the referendum, we were told London’s financial centre would decamp to a different European city and that there would be mass brawls in the streets as medicine and food ran out which plainly hasn’t been the case. The reality is since we left in Jan 20, we haven’t been able to disentangle the effects of Brexit from the dominant force and disruption caused by the effects of COVID.

It’s tempting to rewind to the halcyon days of the summer of 2019 when Teresa May came to Parliament offering a nice soft Brexit. The fact that JRM and the ERG hated it should have told the oppostion it was the best deal on offer and with an unpopular May hanging on by a thin majority, they could have influenced government policy much more. Alas, Corbyns eyes lit up when he glimpsed power and the rest is history.
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Other than the Corbyn reference, that pretty much nails it. There was a remain majority in Parliament, a soft brexit should have happened but hard remainers wanted to cancel the whole thing. Even now they can’t see it. That brings me to actual eyes that lit up belonged to Swinson and other so-called ‘progressives’.
 
wacko said:
Perhaps if you only care about Nissan Sunderland. Do you work there ?
We all know there aren't enough red buses for the rest of the UK.
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He planted an imagined Chinese flag on the thread - a vacuous assertion he lifted from a UKIP YouTube talking points video he previously fly tipped on pfm - before I pointed out that the People’s Republic of China were arriving in Sunderland in the form of Envision Batteries.
 
Brian, I was referring to the opposition parties triggering of the Nov 19 GE which then led to Johnson's re-election but with a much bigger majority.

So on the end it was a lose-lose result for the opposition parties that had campaigned for Remain and an object lesson on the failure of narrow party politics and its dire consequences.
 
Brian said:
Other than the Corbyn reference, that pretty much nails it. There was a remain majority in Parliament, a soft brexit should have happened but hard remainers wanted to cancel the whole thing. Even now they can’t see it. That brings me to actual eyes that lit up belonged to Swinson and other so-called ‘progressives’.
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It was Theresa May who insisted that we left the SM/CU, so it was her stupid red lines that led to this hard Brexit. She was too bothered about pandering to the ERG nutters in her own party than actually being pragmatic and honouring the close result of the referendum.
 
PsB said:
That's just your opinion. The UK was offered a menu of options ranging from continued Single Market/EEA membership to Hard Brexit, and chose Hard Brexit for ideological and internal political party reasons.
As for mentality, the "with us or against us mentality" has been mostly visible on the Brexit side, with Brexiters openly hoping or even predicting Brexit would trigger the implosion of the EU.
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I don’t know who you refer to. On this forum at least there are many more hoping the UK will fail than people predicting implosion of the EU.

Now brexit has happened and we’ve seen the EU show its true colours, if brexit caused a breakdown of the EU that would be a positive of brexit.

Nick_G said:
It was Theresa May who insisted that we left the SM/CU, so it was her stupid red lines that led to this hard Brexit. She was too bothered about pandering to the ERG nutters in her own party than actually being pragmatic and honouring the close result of the referendum.
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There was a remain majority in Parliament from 2016 right through to the clearout of 2019. There were many opportunities for hard remainers to get together and do the right thing but they failed and the reason why they failed is they wanted to ignore democracy. It was shameful behaviour. A majority voted to leave.
 
Also, rather than reflecting on what could have been, it’s important to recognise that the current deal is capable of eroding further because ‘the deal’ is not the deal. Johnson wants to renegotiate his oven ready (especially great deal for Ulster) deal with a weak hand, so things are entirely capable of getting worse.
 
Brian said:
I don’t know who you refer to. On this forum at least there are many more hoping the UK will fail than people predicting implosion of the EU.

Now brexit has happened and we’ve seen the EU show its true colours, if brexit caused a breakdown of the EU that would be a positive of brexit.


There was a remain majority in Parliament from 2016 right through to the clearout of 2019. There were many opportunities for hard remainers to get together and do the right thing but they failed and the reason why they failed is they wanted to ignore democracy. It was shameful behaviour. A majority voted to leave.
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Where to start with this beauty?
 
My two cents - it is pretty obvious that if you leave a frictionless trade market, i.e. Single Market - to a trade arrangement with barriers with the biggest and closest trade partner - in the base case scenario, you will definitely be worse-off. If you fail to acknowledge this, whether you are on the remain or leave side of the argument, you are definitely in fantasy Cuckooland.
This doesn't mean that everything that will follow will definitely be doom and gloom. There can be some sectors/regions that may be able to take 'advantage' of Brexit and some long-term issues (that have been present well before Brexit) might get tackled too. Poverty is still pretty bad in some regions in the UK compared to some western EU nations. Vocational education in this country sucks - need an urgent overhaul.
Also, I don't see the current trade-deal as the end-point. At some point, bojo and his cronies will leave government whether that's in 5 or 10 yrs who knows a future government could perhaps seek a much closer partnership with EU and we may join the single market again.
A lot has been said about the City of London. Yes - trades and assets have disappeared to various EU centres (notably Paris/Frankfurt/Amsterdam) but as long as London remains on the cutting edge of Finance - I'm confident that the talent and value-add jobs will remain largely in London.
The one thing that strikes me (even after 5yrs Brexit referendum) - the argument in the UK is still very divisive, whereas in the EU and their countries they have moved on. Brexit is hardly any headline news over there anymore.
 
Brian said:
I don’t know who you refer to. On this forum at least there are many more hoping the UK will fail than people predicting implosion of the EU.

Now brexit has happened and we’ve seen the EU show its true colours, if brexit caused a breakdown of the EU that would be a positive of brexit.


There was a remain majority in Parliament from 2016 right through to the clearout of 2019. There were many opportunities for hard remainers to get together and do the right thing but they failed and the reason why they failed is they wanted to ignore democracy. It was shameful behaviour. A majority voted to leave.
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You seem to wonder why people think you are a Tory enabler. Well, it's because of posts like that. It couldn't be more in step with a Tory response if it tried, especially that bit about the breakdown of the EU. Pure ERG batsh*****y.
 
TheDecameron said:
He planted an imagined Chinese flag on the thread - a vacuous assertion he lifted from a UKIP YouTube talking points video he previously fly tipped on pfm - before I pointed out that the People’s Republic of China were arriving in Sunderland in the form of Envision Batteries.
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The problem with Colin B making Chinese themed posts is that he feels like making another 30 minutes later.
 
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Colin L said:
The problem with Colin B making Chinese themed posts is that he feels like making another after 30 minutes.
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The list of UKIP/Brexit bogiemen is in itself fascinating- China, our closest allies in Europe, Biden’s “Irish Caucus on The Hill” US administration, the Irish government and of course the Scottish government. Strangely though they profess a deep empathy for and solidarity with the poor African Farmer, while they demand the abolition of the overseas development budget at the same time.

It’s a house of cards fighting on too many imagined fronts to survive. The world has seen it so many times before and it always ends badly.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Brian, I was referring to the opposition parties triggering of the Nov 19 GE which then led to Johnson's re-election but with a much bigger majority.

So on the end it was a lose-lose result for the opposition parties that had campaigned for Remain and an object lesson on the failure of narrow party politics and its dire consequences.
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Thanks.

It seemed at the time the best option was a short term govt with Corbyn as temporary leader then a GE, Swinson putting paid to that amazingly believing she could win a majority is what sticks in my mind.
 
Nick_G said:
You seem to wonder why people think you are a Tory enabler. Well, it's because of posts like that. It couldn't be more in step with a Tory response if it tried, especially that bit about the breakdown of the EU. Pure ERG batsh*****y.
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No, I don’t wonder that at all.

My earlier comment recognises how the EU has behaved since 2016. In addition, I dislike the unnecessary politics, the lack of democracy and bullying by the EU. None of it is essential for trade.

That is not enabling tories. LibDem supporters, SNP supporters, so called ‘progressives’ living in a dream of a whole new political system isn’t going to dislodge the tories. Even worse is the most important change we could have had was spurned by those sell-out LibDems in 2010. Since then it has become more important at every GE to change the tory govt but time after time people have undermined and turned their back on the opposition, reducing the chances of that happening. That is enabling the tories, enabling brexit and everything else this govt stands for.

I see you got a like. Hilarious stuff and clueless.
 
Nick_G said:
It was Theresa May who insisted that we left the SM/CU, so it was her stupid red lines that led to this hard Brexit. She was too bothered about pandering to the ERG nutters in her own party than actually being pragmatic and honouring the close result of the referendum.
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Theresa the remainer did give soft options but prior to the Dec 2019 clearance MPs still thought they knew best and went all out for cancelling Brexit or worst case a soft Brexit that in time would be cancelled.
 
DodgyEars said:
The one thing that strikes me (even after 5yrs Brexit referendum) - the argument in the UK is still very divisive, whereas in the EU and their countries they have moved on. Brexit is hardly any headline news over there anymore.
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Although I suspect that this is because it is analogous with the situation between the UK and Ireland. The UK went on to be a world-girding Empire, so Ireland and its affairs were a minor footnote, whereas Ireland's affairs were, to a very large extent, dictated by its relations with That Other Island Next Door. So far as the EU is concerned, the UK has gone, full stop, end of story, so why even mention it any more, apart from anthropological considerations of the oddities of island peoples.
 
Brian said:
No, I don’t wonder that at all.

My earlier comment recognises how the EU has behaved since 2016. In addition, I dislike the unnecessary politics, the lack of democracy and bullying by the EU. None of it is essential for trade.

That is not enabling tories. LibDem supporters, SNP supporters, so called ‘progressives’ living in a dream of a whole new political system isn’t going to dislodge the tories. Even worse is the most important change we could have had was spurned by those sell-out LibDems in 2010. Since then it has become more important at every GE to change the tory govt but time after time people have undermined and turned their back on the opposition, reducing the chances of that happening. That is enabling the tories, enabling brexit and everything else this govt stands for.

I see you got a like. Hilarious stuff and clueless.
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I'm sorry Brian, but if you can't see how crazy that post looked, then how are we supposed to conduct a meaningful debate with you? And all because I made the observation that a Tory was doing the wrong thing.
 
TheDecameron said:
He planted an imagined Chinese flag on the thread - a vacuous assertion he lifted from a UKIP YouTube talking points video he previously fly tipped on pfm - before I pointed out that the People’s Republic of China were arriving in Sunderland in the form of Envision Batteries.
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If there were to be an independent Scotland there will be many Chinese flags flying in Scotland to reduce the deficit to 3% to even have a remote opportunity of rejoining our friends and nachbar in the EU.
 
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