To Tannoy or not to Tannoy

[david ellwood]

Personally I’d be looking to try some different amplification with the existing speakers before heading down the tannoy road.

Tannoys are very good at what they do well and woeful at what they do badly, if they suit you then you’ll be happy as.

 

[ToTo Man]

How do you manage that 47Hz room mode?

I'm still puzzled at this whole wardrobe in a closet concept. Other than having different laws of physics to mine, I can only understand it might work if you are radically under powering the speakers, and that Tannoys have a special aptitude to being under-driver, so that you can use a low powered valve amp and just not get much bass out of those big drivers.

I suspect one or more of the following applies to Tannoy listeners in small rooms who aren't bothered by excitation of room modes:
a) The room modes are being excited but they subjectively enjoy the excitation;
b) They listen at levels that are low enough so that the modes aren't audible/objectionable to the ear (Fletcher-Munson loudness contour);
c) They use Tannoys in enclosures that do not generate lots of output at frequencies at which the room modes occur (MG15s in sealed Lancaster enclosures, for example, begin to roll-off from 100Hz and have a Q=0.5 so work very well in small rooms and near boundaries. See my in-room FR graphs comparing MG15 in sealed Lancaster vs MG12(HE) in distributed port Edinburgh vs MG15 in Lockwood Major, - the results aren't 100% comparable as the speakers were placed at slightly different distances from the wall but it gives you a good idea how much more LF energy some Tannoy enclosures produce).
d) They don't place their Tannoys and listening seat hard against the front and rear walls, respectively. (The front-to-real wall axial mode can IME be completely ameliorated by moving the listening position far enough away from the rear wall so that the amplitude of the mode is brought into line with the rest of the bass response. The same thing can be achieved with the floor-ceiling axial mode by adjusting the height of the speaker and listening position. The other modes admittedly aren't so simple to deal with).

 

[JTC]

Tannoys are very good at what they do well and woeful at what they do badly, if they suit you then you’ll be happy as.

What do they do badly? Nothing, as far as I can tell, at least in comparison to other speakers I have owned or heard.

 

[PhilofCas]

a) The room modes are being excited but they subjectively enjoy the excitation;
b) They listen at levels that are low enough so that the modes aren't audible/objectionable to the ear (Fletcher-Munson loudness contour)

Just sat here now listening to my system, I’d recently tried it in a different room and now just plonked it back in the living room, the sub needs retuning as the level is now much too high, BUT, at low levels I’m playing it at (Mrs is upstairs having a nap) it sounds nicely balanced, like a loudness button is pressed, it’s actually pretty decent.

So yes, agree particularly on b) above, but a) can please some too.

 

[david ellwood]

If you can’t hear what they do badly then you have found your perfect speaker!

Me pointing out their foibles isn’t going to change your mind.

All speakers are compromises, the trick is finding the speaker whose downsides you don’t even notice.

Well done you!

 

[JTC]

I don’t really hear anything that they do worse than any of the other speakers I’ve had, though some have had aspects that might be preferable to the Tannoys (e.g. ESL57s absolute transparency) but to be quite frank they’re just so damned enjoyable and - dare I say it - musical that anything else is nitpicking…

 

[hifinutt]

3 years ago we had a BIG valve integrated which was stunning . we had the harbeth shl5plus in the room about 13 foot x 17 foot [into the bay] for some reason the harbeth excited a node in the room and sounded less than acceptable . rather like them being on steroids .

then we put the same amp on the tannoy eaton legacy in the SAME position exactly near the wall . wow they just sounded awesome. no room nodes excited , just simply superb . the harbies did not last long , they were traded in. I would still have the harbies again but maybe in a different room

 

[ToTo Man]

I've never heard or owned Harbeths but there does seem to be quite a high number of reports on here of them having 'slow' bass and setting off room modes. Makes you wonder if their port tunings haven't been optimised?

In the case of the Legacy Eaton vs SHL5+, it isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison as, according to review measurements, the Eatons roll-off earlier than the SHL5+ so you'd expect the Eatons to excite room modes less.

 

[Whaleblue]

@jon l - simple answer is yes, give it a try. I find (in my admittedly limited experience) Harbeths a little too polite. Tannoys are not at the opposite end of the spectrum (where, say, ATCs live) but do bring more detail than the Harbeths, not to mention controlled bass, excellent soundstage and an overall moreish presentation.

My room is 5.2m by 4m and I fire across the shorter dimension. Cabs are 100l custom built with the 12” HPDs (HPD315).

The speakers are close to the back wall. Sofa pulled out just 6 inches from wall. No significant bass issues.

 

[hifinutt]

ah thanks TOTo . didnt know that . my son utterly hated the shl5plus as they did not do bass to his satisfaction

 

[Chris81]

ah thanks TOTo . didnt know that . my son utterly hated the shl5plus as they did not do bass to his satisfaction

I'm not offending you but that really makes me wonder because I explained it (and showed you the measurements) here #14 before. You said that the Tannoy played deeper and I showed the graph which proofed the opposite.

 

[hifinutt]

Indeed , your graphs are no doubt correct but the harbeths just did not excite when it came to his dubstep. The tannoys would take the plaster off the ceiling if you wanted ! Can,t explain it technically.

 

[hifinutt]

Of course one big difference with the tannoys is they are very adjustable with the 2 sets of adjustable thingies at the bottom. Perhaps it's just I have them more adjusted to the room than the very capable shl5plus which were utterly enthralling with piano music

Just seem very natural and having had 804s, focal diablo, focal 1028be, Logan summit x , verity rienzi in same position..the tannoys acquit themselves very well

 

[psd122]

How do you manage that 47Hz room mode?

I'm still puzzled at this whole wardrobe in a closet concept. Other than having different laws of physics to mine, I can only understand it might work if you are radically under powering the speakers, and that Tannoys have a special aptitude to being under-driver, so that you can use a low powered valve amp and just not get much bass out of those big drivers.

I didn't understand what you were talking about until I had a good think about this. The only issue I've had was streaming radio 2 which initially sounded quite impressive then I realized there was this mid bass hump. Never heard this before,I get non of this whilst using my vortexbox to access my ripped cd's or streaming qobuz, sounds just great at any volume also with my magnum dynalab tuner that sounds really lovely into my primaluna dialogue premium. It's interesting that I also have no issues streaming radio paradise, so all very good really.

 

[Chris81]

Indeed , your graphs are no doubt correct but the harbeths just did not excite when it came to his dubstep. The tannoys would take the plaster off the ceiling if you wanted ! Can,t explain it technically.

No wonder to me, the Eaton has a stiffer enclosure, a bigger driver, a higher efficiency, a mid bass bump compared to the Harbeth SHL5+ which has a sloping bass curve.

vs:

I know it is the 40th. A.E. version but they are very similar in the bass frequencies.

 

[SteveS1]

Indeed , your graphs are no doubt correct but the harbeths just did not excite when it came to his dubstep. The tannoys would take the plaster off the ceiling if you wanted ! Can,t explain it technically.

Room? It's one thing knowing how the speakers measure, but the room will boost some frequencies and suck out others.

 

[cooky1257]

No wonder to me, the Eaton has a stiffer enclosure, a bigger driver, a higher efficiency, a mid bass bump compared to the Harbeth SHL5+ which has a sloping bass curve.

vs:

I know it is the 40th. A.E. version but they are very similar in the bass frequencies.

Theres every possibility that when you factor in room loading/boundary reinforcement the Harbeth bottom end could become a soggy boomy mess whereas the effect on the Tannoy would be to flesh out the bottom end to complement the mid bass snap.
For the uninitiated, Mansfields are 75L sealed 15" HPD's (and are one of my favourite Tannoys) they sound good placed close to the front wall-you can get a similar (tight/slight tubby)result fully blocking the ports on Berkeleys.
Once I've re-foamed and serviced the pair of Berks I recently picked up from Brumjam I'll be playing about to see how they perform in a smaller spare rooms.
I say go for it, the coherence of the Dual Concentric also allows you to get up close and virtually eliminate the room too should you wish to.

 

[lexi]

How do you manage that 47Hz room mode?

I'm still puzzled at this whole wardrobe in a closet concept. Other than having different laws of physics to mine, I can only understand it might work if you are radically under powering the speakers, and that Tannoys have a special aptitude to being under-driver, so that you can use a low powered valve amp and just not get much bass out of those big drivers.

Yep. I gave up on Berkely's because of the issues you mention.........especially with lots of rock recordings (overblown bass)

 

[hifinutt]

Room? It's one thing knowing how the speakers measure, but the room will boost some frequencies and suck out others.

yes so true . the eatons seem to perform better in my lounge which is way over damped . cooky mentioned the coherance of the dc concentric , thats what i like . just every so often you just still get that wow factor as the realism and imaging sounds so good . if i had my ref 5se back in the system i would drive you all mental with superlatives .... the current ss pre with a dc3 psu really brings out the best in these speakers . it really made a difference to the bass putting the dc3 psu in .

 

[hifinutt]

No wonder to me, the Eaton has a stiffer enclosure, a bigger driver, a higher efficiency, a mid bass bump compared to the Harbeth SHL5+ which has a sloping bass curve.

vs:

I know it is the 40th. A.E. version but they are very similar in the bass frequencies.

which one is the eatons ? one day you can explain this to me in simple english . i am curious what settings they had the eatons on when they did the graph because they change depending on the treble energy setting etc P1060718 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/, on Flickr