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I have to laugh . . . the AT VM95E vs the Grado Sonata

Rick Duplisea at Audio Alternative

That was one of a handful of dealers back when I was selling Linn that the US distributor spoke highly of at that time, late 80’s.
 
matt j said:
I can see it as a bit of fun or a stop gap, but not as a proper solution.
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Why? Better is better.

I ran LP12s for thirty years. let's say the best combo in it was the Ittok/Troika. It wasn't but for the sake of simplicity. Then I got the RP10. In Hi-Fi terms, even with a cheaper MM cart on it the deck was superior to the Ittok/Troika. Lower noise floor, lower groove noise, more detail, better speed stability, less distortion. So in what way is this not a proper solution?

If you put a good MC cartridge in a Linn Basik arm is that a proper solution? If not, why not?
 
Mr Pig said:
Why? Better is better.

I ran LP12s for thirty years. let's say the best combo in it was the Ittok/Troika. It wasn't but for the sake of simplicity. Then I got the RP10. In Hi-Fi terms, even with a cheaper MM cart on it the deck was superior to the Ittok/Troika. Lower noise floor, lower groove noise, more detail, better speed stability, less distortion. So in what way is this not a proper solution?

If you put a good MC cartridge in a Linn Basik arm is that a proper solution? If not, why not?
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But it's not better than a better cart in the same arm. It's a cheap stop gap, good at what it does and at its price point, nothing more.
 
matt j said:
But it's not better than a better cart in the same arm. It's a cheap stop gap, good at what it does and at its price point, nothing more.
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None of this makes sense.

An Ekos/AT95 was cheaper than an Ittok/Troika yet sounded better. So how is that nothing more than being good at its price point? If it sounds better than a more expensive alternative why does that make it a stop gap? Where is the law that says a product has to be a stop gap if better alternatives exist?

Not being better than a more expensive combination is irrelevant. Is an LP12 a stop gap because it's not as good as an SME? No, because almost all buyers work to a chosen budget based on their means, desires or priorities. A Planer 3 is not a stop gap to someone for whom it's as good a turntable as they want or can afford. If a certain arm and cartridge combination offers better performance than a more expensive one it's not a stop gap but a smart use of funds.

I do get fed up with cartridge snobbery but I have noticed a lot more people using good MM carts on fairly good decks that could easily accommodate a MC. The economics make sense and the performance can be excellent. Expensive MC cartridges are not made of magic. There are other ways to get a great sound.
 
Bob Edwards said:
Agreed. I have a ML arriving tomorrow; I'll move the E to the Revolver. And then I'll start torturing myself with how far up to go: an OC9X? ART9X? Dyna 20x2? Etc. Way back when I had a Lyra Helikon in an Aro which worked well but didn't demand my attention the way other arm/carts have. From what I'm hearing now I suspect it'll come down to the ART9 or the Dyna, or perhaps the Hana ML if Rick Duplisea at Audio Alternative recommends it (I worked for him years ago and he is the very best LP12 person I know - when I did Linn LP12 training in Eaglesham Martin McCue and others knew his LP12 work, and he still has people ship him LP12s from across the world to work on).

Slightly off topic, but I think different TT types (and other hifi components, for that matter) simply resonate differently with different people. I'm apparently a dyed-in-the-wool Linnie. Still have the Rega P6/Ania (awaiting payment for it), and I can hear what people love about Rega from it, but it doesn't demand that I sit down and play record after record the way it does for others. I've tried other tables as well, like a VPI and a Well-Tempered and a Roksan Xerxes X and started with an Oracle Alexandria, but none of them have produced the engagement and emotional effect that an LP12 has. And I know that's true for others with different tables. Hence, I have a rather "live and let live" attitude about such things. Someone prefers a Verdier? OK, good for them. A friend has a huge VPI - he loves it, I think it one of the most boring TTs I've ever heard. I've said before the one table that absolutely gobsmacked me was the Goldmund Reference - but I have zero idea how it would sound today - or if any working ones even exist (to say they were fiddly would be a great example of litotes).

Sometimes I also think that fun is hugely under-rated in hifi - people get WAY too serious and spun up over it. Relax. Play a record. Play a CD. Play something via streaming. Enjoy.
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Totally agree, great post. Warning, been on the strong cider for a couple of hours now so everything is awesome!!!
 
Just going back to Grado cartridges, someone I know has recently purchased a Grado Prestige Green and gave it very good reports, and also it is very easy to replace the stylus so ordered a 8MZ stylus which really upped it's performance:
 
Salamander said:
Just going back to Grado cartridges, someone I know has recently purchased a Grado Prestige Green and gave it very good reports..
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I liked the Green myself but, while I appreciated its strengths, it was too flawed in other areas for me to want to use it long term. I can see how it might suit certain tastes, if you're a vocal buff it's cheap way to get lovely, organic mids.

Still have the Green here if anyone wants to buy it? ;0)

I did think about a more expensive Grado. I read all I could find on line about Grado and to be honest I'm just not confident in them. I read multiple reports of them downgrading cartridges without disclosing this and being cagey if anyone asks, they don't publish the construction specs and there is little to no sign of cartridge development. I get the impression of a tired old company that is just being kept ticking over to make money. I'm not spending hundreds of pounds on a cartridge when they can't even be sure of what I'm getting.
 
Del monaco said:
Isn’t the green just a Black with improved measurements?
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Yes. Basically what it seems they do is just build one cart then measure them and sell them as different carts depending on the results. So a poor green will be more or less identical to a good black. It's just cost you more.

And they've done things like swapping from a nude stylus to a glued one without publishing it and selling the stylus as the same thing.
 
Salamander said:
Just going back to Grado cartridges, someone I know has recently purchased a Grado Prestige Green and gave it very good reports, and also it is very easy to replace the stylus so ordered a 8MZ stylus which really upped it's performance:
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Makes sense - the Prestige range are fundamentally good designs let down by Grado using moon rock for the stylus tip.
 
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