advertisement


Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha - Quality?

It's a shame that Sansui never came out of the other side of when they went downmarket. Although they went *seriously* downmarket from what I've seen: latter-era Sansui stuff looks like the archetypal 80s cheap BPC which is tragic considering how they were originally a cut above the rest of the mass-market brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo etc.

It seems like Sansui had an attempt at a comeback at some point:

Sansui-AU-A607-MOS.jpg

au-alpha607mospremium(3).JPG


It looks a lot like a modern Accuphase/Denon inside. Symmetrical amp section and preamp/phono squeezed into a compartment on the right. These are quite valuable, but at the time they must have not been successful enough.
 
Last edited:
A friend was asking about the A-48 amp., and whether it ran hot. I put my hand over the top, where the mesh vents were, and reported that no, it was just warm. Later, I happened to be reaching behind the amp. to sort the wiring out & noticed the top row of heatsinks were pretty hot; not unbearably so. The bottom row were again just pleasantly warm. Doing their job...

I've heard this about Accuphase Class A amps, that they don't run as hot as others... I used to own the Sugden Masterclass IA4 which was pretty toasty, but the hottest one I tried was the MF AMS35I.
Mac
 
... latter-era Sansui stuff looks like the archetypal 80s cheap BPC which is tragic considering how they were originally a cut above the rest of the mass-market brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo etc.
I think you will find quite the opposite when it comes to Yamaha and Pioneer of the 70s and 80s.

Yamaha MOS-FET amplifiers C-1/B-1 and C-2/B-2 were legendary. Their CA-1000/1010 and CA-2000/2010 integrated amps are highly desirable, even today.

Pioneer Spec-1/4 amps, together with their silver-faced series of components aren't exactly mass market items. Their 20-series amplifiers have stood the test of time. I still use a mint pair of Pioneer C-21 / M-22, which are not shamed by anything I've compared them against.
 
I think you will find quite the opposite when it comes to Yamaha and Pioneer of the 70s and 80s.

Yamaha MOS-FET amplifiers C-1/B-1 and C-2/B-2 were legendary. Their CA-1000/1010 and CA-2000/2010 integrated amps are highly desirable, even today.

Pioneer Spec-1/4 amps, together with their silver-faced series of components aren't exactly mass market items. Their 20-series amplifiers have stood the test of time. I still use a mint pair of Pioneer C-21 / M-22, which are not shamed by anything I've compared them against.

I bow to your direct experience! I'm a big Yamaha fan but always had the impression that Sansui stuff was seen as slightly better - perhaps it was an incorrect impression.
 
I think you will find quite the opposite when it comes to Yamaha and Pioneer of the 70s and 80s.

Yamaha MOS-FET amplifiers C-1/B-1 and C-2/B-2 were legendary. Their CA-1000/1010 and CA-2000/2010 integrated amps are highly desirable, even today.

Pioneer Spec-1/4 amps, together with their silver-faced series of components aren't exactly mass market items. Their 20-series amplifiers have stood the test of time. I still use a mint pair of Pioneer C-21 / M-22, which are not shamed by anything I've compared them against.

The Series 20 PA-1000 tonearm was pretty fine too.
 
It seems like Sansui had an attempt at a comeback at some point:

Sansui-AU-A607-MOS.jpg

au-alpha607mospremium(3).JPG


It actually looks a lot like a modern Accuphase/Denon layout inside. Symmetrical amp section and preamp/phono squeezed into a compartment on the right. These are quite valuable, but at the time they must have not been successful enough.
I vaguely recall that Accuphase was set up by ex-Sansui techs, possibly dismayed at the move down market. Not sure if it’s true, but that pic does, as you say, establish a very visible link, doesn’t it.
 
Many of the Japanese brands had ranges that included upmarket equipment that was never sold in Europe or only sold in Germany

Indeed. Their high-end direct drive turntables are a good example of this. The indigenous HiFi manufacturers of many western countries were scared shitless by these. So, knowing they'd never be able to compete with the R&D and in cahoots with the press, they told everyone that DD was crap and only belt drive were proper tables.

Fast forward 3 or 4 decades and look how well regarded those juggernaut DD tables are alas they're relatively thin on the ground given they were only ever sold in Japan. To keep this thread (just about) on-topic, it's worth saying that both Yamaha and Luxman had some lovely turntables but to my knowledge, it was never an area into which Accuphase got involved?
 
Reviving this thread...I've recently been investigating the possibility of replacing my old, trusty Naim DBL speakers. Over the years, I've listened to many makes, but none have particularly blown my skirts up. But you never really know until you've got 'em in your home system for a good, long listen. My excellent dealer, Signals, lent me a pair I'd previously tagged as being likely candidates that would be OK in my room & position, but after a few days' listening I just couldn't get on with them, good though they were in many ways.

Anyway, I'd had a chat with my dealer a few weeks ago regarding whether or not a move to the Accuphase E800 from my rather splendid E560 might be worthwhile. His opinion was I might be better off listening to one of their pre/power combinations. Andy from Signals came over to collect the speakers yesterday, and so I took the opportunity to borrow their demo Accuphase A-48 amp & 2150 preamp. The A-48's a bit of a monster! So I gave the combination a long listen yesterday & this morning, & I'm sold on them already. Just more of the lovely Accuphase sound, expansive and detailed, smooth & relaxing to listen to.

Q0rFK2x.jpg

Looks lovely Tony! (I own the previous generation, C-2120 pre and A-47 power amp)

Are you using a Urika as a phono pre, powered by the Radikal?

And, just for shits and giggles, have you compared Accuphase's DAC-60 board to your chord DAC (with or without Scaler)? You might be surprised - I know my DAC-40 board ran the DC-37 close, sometimes a bit too close for comfort.

Furthermore I'd be worried about the Fraim glass not being able to take the weight of the A-48... you sure that's OK?
 
I had the pleasure of home-demoing an A-48 over the weekend. It sounded sublime, even with an ancient Pioneer C-21 doing preamp duties. I'd like to listen to it again with a matching Accuphase preamp. I think in terms of hierarchy, the A-48 is better matched with the C-2450. Even on its own, it had that rare ability to portray subtlety and authority in equal measure. My only reservation is whether it is truly class A to its rated output of 45WPC. It runs a fair bit cooler than my 30WPC Pioneer M-22.

My Accuphase dealer (with decades of experience with the brand) insists that the magic is in the preamps. Perhaps I am temped to try the successor of the 2450, which should come out soon, judging by the model cycle in Accuphase's "product museum" page (frankly every brand should have something like that).

As to which pre is appropriate for which power amp, that's an interesting question given that there are 4 pres for only 3 class A and 3 class A/B power amps (leaving aside the somewhat special case of the A-36 which seems to be mostly used in multi amp setups and is long overdue for a change anyway).
 
My Accuphase dealer (with decades of experience with the brand) insists that the magic is in the preamps.
Not unlike Naim then. When do you think the C-2450 will be superseded? It is already pricier than the A-48.
 
Many of the Japanese brands had ranges that included upmarket equipment that was never sold in Europe or only sold in Germany

Some even had upmarket brands, in Toyota -> Lexus style, Hitachi had something called Lo-D, Onkyo had Scepter (maybe only speakers), etc. Very little of this was seen outside Japan.
 
Looks lovely Tony! (I own the previous generation, C-2120 pre and A-47 power amp)

Are you using a Urika as a phono pre, powered by the Radikal?

And, just for shits and giggles, have you compared Accuphase's DAC-60 board to your chord DAC (with or without Scaler)? You might be surprised - I know my DAC-40 board ran the DC-37 close, sometimes a bit too close for comfort.

Furthermore I'd be worried about the Fraim glass not being able to take the weight of the A-48... you sure that's OK?
Hi Vin,
Yes, the Urika's the phono pro. In my desire to reduce my box count as much as possible, I did try the DAC board in my previous E-650, but it didn't compare well with the DAVE, even with the M-scaler. Not surprising really, given the price difference. The other problem was that it slightly degraded the sound quality of the E-650.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vln
Must. Resist. Thinking. About. Pre/Powers.... the raison d'être behind my move to an überintegrated was to reduce box count after all.... in any case, I doubt there's really much to be gained in such a move, I find it difficult to imagine what else I could want a hifi to do :)
 
Knowing the sum of nothing much about electronic innards, I'd like to hear the engineers opinion about pre/power vs integrated amps. 'In the old days' I understood it was to do with shielding, and component/wiring run separation, cooling and other mechanical stuff? I wonder now if, with advances in materials, this is the case? Given the two approaches using the same componentry, would they sound different, and why?

Where's Jez when you need him :)?
 


advertisement


Back
Top