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Afghanistan withdrawal.

Afghans should control their country's destiny. For better or for worse.
That's all well and good as long as the effect of their destiny remains within Afghanistan - when it bleeds out in the form of the poppy and terrorism then it's not sensible to allow it to continue.
@Bob Edwards I was in Bastion in 2011 and saw the ragtag Afghan forces - they looked a bit of a mess but were fierce, and better than when I was in Kabul in '07. I'd imagine another decade of training has sharpened them right up.
 
That's all well and good as long as the effect of their destiny remains within Afghanistan - when it bleeds out in the form of the poppy and terrorism then it's not sensible to allow it to continue.
@Bob Edwards I was in Bastion in 2011 and saw the ragtag Afghan forces - they looked a bit of a mess but were fierce, and better than when I was in Kabul in '07. I'd imagine another decade of training has sharpened them right up.
Good points, but at least the poppy/opium part is driven by Western demand. If we didn't buy it, they wouldn't grow it.
 
Such countries get the worst of all worlds, as 'the West' invades on the basis of a 'war on terrorism', smashes the place up and destroys existing infrastructure, both human and technical, then leaves and lets the terrorists and warlords take over. Anyone who cooperated, even minimally, with the Western forces is then marked for death.
 
100 years ago Britain was struggling to keep the Afghans from raiding what is now Pakistan

Indeed, I`ve seen the film:- https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062782/

Back in 1977 I had the pleasure of traveling through Afghanistan and seeing the Buddhas of Bamiyan before they were destroyed by the Taliban. A wonderful country with friendly people. I shudder to think what has happened to the people since, and what still may.
 
Thankfully, my grandfathers had the opposite viewpoint.
Will you sucrifice your daughter to better Afghanistan?

In my case, unambiguously no. She absolutely should not die for a country half way around the world, that has been fought over for centuries, unsuccessfully.
 
No effort required; it's there already around the tribal areas of North Pakistan.
I doubt that the tribal areas of N Pakistan and Afghanistan recognise the international borders. I suspect they see both areas as one region divided into a number of tribal territories. The problem we have is that we are trying to introduce Western democracy in a country that is a million miles away from that and doesn't want it anyway. Unless you are prepared to move in for centuries, much as William the Conqueror did in 1066, and unify a series of fiefdoms under one nation and one rule of law, with all the cries of "colonialism" that would surely follow, you are doomed to failure. Remember it took 150 years from William to the drawing up of the Magna Carta. Are we prepared to put in a sustained effort for that long?
 
Women's rights are sure to become more limited under Taliban rule.

I used to work with an Afghani, he had some interesting comments on how Afghanistan is perceived in the West, he said the reason that women are not educated is that if they leave the family then there is no one to look after the older generation, he said you cannot apply western rules to a society with no welfare infrastructure how ever appealing it may look from the outside.
 
I know little of history, I am very thinly read as Eddie Izzard would say, my knowledge of the area is based on carry on up the the Khyber and Bitter Lake, with a touch of Larry of Arabia thrown in for good measure.

But in an over simplistic world view, why doesn't the west but the poppy harvest, make decent smack and give it away, that's sort of a war gone, numerous criminal organizations looking for a new line of work, petty crime gone to fund habit and end users get quality smack. Sure Purdu (the oxy-contin gang) or whoever they are will have the moral flexibiltiy to do this, as god forbid big pharma should miss out.

S
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57714808

"Any foreign troops left in Afghanistan after Nato's September withdrawal deadline will be at risk as occupiers, the Taliban has told the BBC.


It comes amid reports that 1,000 mainly US troops could remain on the ground to protect diplomatic missions and Kabul's international airport.

Nato's 20-year military mission in Afghanistan has all but ended.

But violence in the country continues to rise, with the Taliban taking more territory.

Under a deal with the militant group, the US and its Nato allies agreed to withdraw all troops in return for a commitment by the Taliban not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.

President Joe Biden set a deadline of 11 September - the 20-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the US - for American troops to fully withdraw, but reports suggest the pullout may be complete within days.

As Afghan forces prepare to take charge of security alone, concern is growing for the future of Kabul."
 
Afghanistan has always been a bandit economy, preying on the silk road long ago. I don't see how the Taliban can form a government unless they start looting Pakistan, which could go nuclear very quickly.
 


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