Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I categorically did not say I supported Labour aping the tories use of a flag. Please show me the post that made it seem the case to you that I did. I’m wondering if I missed something.
Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV
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ks.234
Half way to Infinity
At a time when people were questioning the Labour Party and Starmer for appearing with flags, I seem to remember you defending Starmer and the use flags. You appeared to be arguing against those who found the use of flags troubling and saying that there is nothing wrong with flags.
As I have said many times, I apologise if I got that wrong.
There has been a lot of moaning - the dropping of pledges, too right-wing, profile issues, the treatment of RLB, not being from old management and so on but this is the PF off topic section so par for the course. Nothing wrong with being woke btw.
What should 2021 Labour stand for then, and how would it have helped them win recent local elections?
Indeed, the more distance Labour can put between itself and militant unions the better. We don't want a repeat of the 1970s.
Seanm
pfm Member
Well, Labour did do well in some places. What went right?
I’ll leave that up to you. The Labour right spent 5 years demanding the ball back on the basis that they knew exactly what to do. They’re now fully in charge: the left present no obstacle to them at all. So let’s see what they’ve been working on all this time.
Just for dignity’s sake I think it would be good to stop banging on about the left, as a first step.
Seanm
pfm Member
Seanm
pfm Member
This is embarrassing:
https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1404343624121425922?s=21
How could we be expected to beat Galloway? He’s got a car!
https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1404343624121425922?s=21
How could we be expected to beat Galloway? He’s got a car!
Seanm
pfm Member
Also how can we be expected to make progress against the Conservatives, when the Conservatives are so great?
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1404355427484291072?s=21
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1404355427484291072?s=21
Tony L
Administrator
Amazing. If even Jo Cox’s sister, who clearly has the sympathy and support of everyone decent, can’t make any headway it really does speak volumes as to how fundamentally crap Labour are as an entity. Galloway FFS. Attention-seeking spokesmen for dictatorships and all round dickheads should lose their deposit in any sane world. He’s the polar opposite/mirror image of Laurence Fox and should be treated accordingly.
notaclue
pfm Member
One appalling loss in Hartlepool. And now one lost deposit in Chesham. It would seem as if everything is on track for another appalling loss in Batley and Spen. And surely there will be huge pressure on him to go after that.
As I have said before, poor Sir Keir. A veritable Shakespearean tragedy.
Thought he would save the Labour Party (probably believed this was his destiny cos of his name) and may end up stepping down with the worst election record of any leader of any major party. Ever.
As I have said before, poor Sir Keir. A veritable Shakespearean tragedy.
Thought he would save the Labour Party (probably believed this was his destiny cos of his name) and may end up stepping down with the worst election record of any leader of any major party. Ever.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Can help wondering if Is it Starmer’s fault? Is he the real leadership in the Labour Party?
The problem in the Labour Party is structural
Indeed. I rejoined the party before the last election and I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Put uber simplistically it's a whole world of difference to when I was last in the party (pre-Iraq), there is no unity, no purpose if you will. They seem unable to decide what they want to do even at a local level. The divides between the Corbynites and those that think the party needs to move back to the centre are huge.... it is a mess. A party trying to appeal to everyone and appealing to no one, they've lost their identity, way too scared to alienate more of the voting public and hence sitting on the fence rather than deciding what they stand for in the post Brexit world and sticking to it. I rejoined as I felt it was time to stop moaning about the Tories and try and do something, but as yet I haven't even got past first base.... I fear they (we) are sunk.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
What does structural mean in this instance? How would the public notice if the structure was different?
I see massive reluctance to attack the Tories on issues their former Red Wall support has bought into for fear of never getting them back. I see no effort to get into the voters that the Tories have abandoned in their quest to shift towards nationalism and culture wars. Meanwhile, voters seem reluctant to hear that the government they just elected made such a rickets of the COVID response and Brexit negotiations, preferring to concentrate on the one thing they haven't screwed up - a vaccine roll out where they were forced to use the NHS.
The fact that Test and Trace was and continues to be an abject failure doesn't bother people along with most of the COVID response in general. The hugely inflated death toll over that we could have expected with swift action caused hardly a ripple. The shovelling of vast sums of public money to their funders as a result of a health crisis doesn't set off any alarms. They are also paying no price for a criminal immigration stance, that has seen attempts to cross the channel increase when they were selling the idea that membership of the EU was the cause of that. The lies and duplicity has been laid bare with documentary evidence on matters as serious as the emptying of the elderly from hospitals into care homes with disasterous consequences, but still people are not ready to think they may have over-estimated Boris.
It reminds me of Thatcher, post Falklands there were plenty of people proud of their vote and you could understand that if not agreeing with it. As things decended into chaos around Poll Tax and Heseltine, Howe and so on it was hard to find people who would admit having voted for her. But they still marginally preferred to give a slightly more moderate Tory a go rather than vote Labour - such is the time it takes to recover from a huge defeat. It's hard for me to see that as 'structural'. Labour have got to decide who they want to be and if that includes trying to get the 'Red Wall' genie back in the bottle - they might as well pack it in now. It will always be easier for the Tories to tack left on economics and keep core supporters than Labour to move to the far right on culture and retain theirs.
ciderglider
pfm Member
Maybe the reason the leaflet didn't gain traction is not the quality of the candidate, but the fact that few in Batley and Spen are concerned about Palestine.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Why do you think a lame candidate and a lackey of Starmer would put Palestine on the leaflet at all? I don't think a two state solution will get much traction around there either.
Tony L
Administrator
Fantastic result for the LDs last night in Chesham. It hopefully highlights that if the Tories keep moving ever-further to the ugly forces of nationalism and popularism in order to chase northern tabloid readers they will lose their core base down south.
Once again Labour proved utterly irrelevant, so no surprise there. Amusing to see them get less than half the voteshare of the Greens. Long may that trend continue.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I’m not going to get too excited, if this is the start of LD’s rising in the polls I doubt they will make a challenge to the Tories, if past experience is anything to go by they’ll get all giddy headed and join them yet again
gavreid
Pretty Words...
It's very similar to Labour but the Tories taking their support for granted this time. HS2 for them. You can't read anything into the Labour or Green vote, these voters are all Pimms, Henly and Ascot types. Batley will be far more telling - the Government has never before won two seats from the opposition in a single year...
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