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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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ks.234 said:
This is a genuine question Brian, because I do take you at your word when you say you’re centre left, but everything I’ve fallen out with you about, be it national identity or the role of slavery in our history, you’ve adopted the government line.

It might help avoid future disagreements if you can set out what it is that, for you, makes you centre left so that we can focus more on what we agree about, rather than on what we disagree
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So you believe we’ve ‘fallen out’...

Keith, I despise slavery. We only disagree on the point where I believe everyone should be taught about it in our schools but it seems you and the group prefer to restrict education to a relatively small subset who visit NT sites.

I don’t know what you mean by ‘national identity’.

To answer your question. The Labour manifesto when Corbyn was the leader suited me just fine. I hope that is enough because I’ve provided a list of what I value before and I’m not doing it again.

Edit: I do not follow the govt line. I decide for myself what I want to see and I really don’t take into account the govt position on it. If I think some action or other is good, it’s good and that’s the end of it. I do not automatically like or dislike anything purely on the basis it is from a Labour, Tory, LibDem or any other flavour of politician.
 
Brian said:
So you believe we’ve ‘fallen out’...

Keith, I despise slavery. We only disagree on the point where I believe everyone should be taught about it in our schools but it seems you and the group prefer to restrict education to a relatively small subset who visit NT sites.

I don’t know what you mean by ‘national identity’.

To answer your question. The Labour manifesto when Corbyn was the leader suited me just fine. I hope that is enough because I’ve provided a list of what I value before and I’m not doing it again.

Edit: I do not follow the govt line. I decide for myself what I want to see and I really don’t take into account the govt position on it. If I think some action or other is good, it’s good and that’s the end of it. I do not automatically like or dislike anything purely on the basis it is from a Labour, Tory, LibDem or any other flavour of politician.
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I thought you were angry with me, if that’s not the case, I apologise.

My comments about the NT we’re about the right wing Tories who *were* trying to determine what the NT should teach, not the NT itself or what the NT is currently teaching. My comment were just about the agenda of certain right wing Tory groups and their publicly avowed aims.

By national Identity I mean flags.
 
ks.234 said:
I thought you were angry with me, if that’s not the case, I apologise.

My comments about the NT we’re about the right wing Tories who *were* trying to determine what the NT should teach, not the NT itself or what the NT is currently teaching. My comment were just about the agenda of certain right wing Tory groups and their publicly avowed aims.

By national Identity I mean flags.
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I’m not remotely angry, I don’t know you, Keith.

I understand what you were posting about the NT and the fringe group, I made that clear after you showed doubts over the clarity of your posts and questioned me.

I don’t know what your point is about flags. What is it you think you disagree with me about flags? While every country in the world has a flag, I do wonder why the SNP has a flag, so I get there can be a dodgy symbolism around them.
 
Brian said:
I really don’t care that much about any flag, though a few are obsessed about them and get worked up about them for some reason.
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Sorry Brian but I’m confused. Again, I apologise if I’m wrong, but you seemed very supportive of flags when Starmer was wrapping himself in the Union Flag and one or two people on here thought it was a bit silly. I seemed like you’re feeling was pro flag waving?
 
Woodface said:
This thread has become a parody really. It was created, seemingly, just to slag off Starmer before he even started. I personally think he is OK, struggling to think of anyone better within the ranks that the membership haven’t already rejected.

I find some of criticism of him to be overly personal & the fact that he is ‘clueless’ is often bandied around. He’s had an incredibly successful legal career & comes from relatively humble stock. He is an inexperienced politician but I would rather have someone who has achieved prior to office rather than just another career politico.

I don’t really understand the vitriol aimed at him; deep down some of the left do like their working classes to know their place.

Oh well, as you were. Reckon there will be at least 10 more pages of the SOS.
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Au contraire, Rodney (as you wouldn't want to say to Sir Keir).

I think your judgment is clouded by your support of Sir Keir whereas I, for example, am (tremendously) neutral and objective.

I was very supportive of Sir Keir in the early days and enjoyed his PMQs victories, but… it became more and more apparent that he didn't offer much else. He didn't so much grow into the role as leader of the opposition but rather seemed to shrink from it. He became rather tedious and predictable at PMQs.

The (many) photos of him out and about before the local elections and Hartlepool with his hands in his pockets suggested someone who is clumsy and ill at ease in campaigning. He reminds me a bit of Mrs May. Another one who imagined themself to be much better at the leadership job than they turned out to be.

He is doing a poor job.

The fact that he chose to be interviewed by the awful Piers Morgan leads me to think Sir Keir is, I'm afraid, a bit of a wally.

Note that if he changes and becomes a good leader of the opposition, I would recognise it and approve and retract my accusation of walliness. Such is my (tremendous) objectivity.
 
ks.234 said:
Sorry Brian but I’m confused. Again, I apologise if I’m wrong, but you seemed very supportive of flags when Starmer was wrapping himself in the Union Flag and one or two people on here thought it was a bit silly. I seemed like you’re feeling was pro flag waving?
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No. Perhaps you can show me what caused your confusion? What I’ve said is, there is nothing wrong with flags, every country has one as far as I know and I’m not bothered about them.

If you choose to think that means I support Starmer, or support anyone else wrapping themselves in a flag, then carry on. I should tell you I haven’t seen Starmer wrapped in a flag, if there was a picture here I didn’t pause to look at it, but I’m sure he would have looked as daft as Ed eating a bacon sarnie and Corbyn trying to wear a suit.
 
notaclue said:
Au contraire, Rodney (as you wouldn't want to say to Sir Keir).

I think your judgment is clouded by your support of Sir Keir whereas I, for example, am (tremendously) neutral and objective.

I was very supportive of Sir Keir in the early days and enjoyed his PMQs victories, but… it became more and more apparent that he didn't offer much else. He didn't so much grow into the role as leader of the opposition but rather seemed to shrink from it. He became rather tedious and predictable at PMQs.

The (many) photos of him out and about before the local elections and Hartlepool with his hands in his pockets suggested someone who is clumsy and ill at ease in campaigning. He reminds me a bit of Mrs May. Another one who imagined themself to be much better at the leadership job than they turned out to be.

He is doing a poor job.

The fact that he chose to be interviewed by the awful Piers Morgan leads me to think Sir Keir is, I'm afraid, a bit of a wally.

Note that if he changes and becomes a good leader of the opposition, I would recognise it and approve and retract my accusation of walliness. Such is my (tremendous) objectivity.
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Mmm

I wasn’t his biggest fan to start with but he was the best candidate.

A Wally? Really? Seems a rather clever bloke to me but obviously you are some kind of genius?
 
I am sure the young Keir would have agreed with me 100% about going on Piers Morgan. If you could go back in time and explain to the young Kier how he would one day follow in the footsteps of Gemma Collins* and appear on a thoroughly s***e chat show fronted by a thoroughly horrible interviewer and have a cosy chat, the young Keir would have agreed 100% that only a wally would do that.

* Of course, you would have to explain to the young Keir who Collins was and how she became famous.
 
ks.234 said:
Sorry Brian but I’m confused. Again, I apologise if I’m wrong, but you seemed very supportive of flags when Starmer was wrapping himself in the Union Flag and one or two people on here thought it was a bit silly. I seemed like you’re feeling was pro flag waving?
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I’m reminded of a pfm member who, while not living in the US, insisted they were a Democrat supporter ( of the Bernie Sanders wing) yet in every post on the subject they boosted Trump relentlessly and when challenged, they proffered the clearly bogus explanation that it was because they disliked the then Democrat presidential candidate. Everyone saw through it except the member himself( apparently).
 
Woodface said:
Does anybody on this thread actually want a Labour Government?

From what I’ve read he came across well & doing one to one interviews with media doyens is probably a very good strategy to achieve cut through.
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Indeed, a decent, if slightly risky, opportunity to add to his profile. Thought he came across well.

Suspect many here would like to see Labour in government (ABB), it's just that a vocal minority on the thread want a certain flavour of Labour government. They are desperate for old management to return. Hence all the moaning about new management.
 
Kirk said:
Indeed, a decent, if slightly risky, opportunity to add to his profile. Thought he came across well.

Suspect many here would like to see Labour in government (ABB), it's just that a vocal minority on the thread want a certain flavour of Labour government. They are desperate for old management to return. Hence all the moaning about new management.
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I think we just want to know what the new management actually stands for. We might be moaning, we might be woke, but all we’re doing is asking a question about the direction the Labour Party is taking. It’s not a difficult question, and it os one that should have had answers well before now and that question is simply, what is the direction that Labour is taking?

Not being able to answer that question has cost Labour a lot of votes just recently, if the Labour Party is going to move forward from here, it’s a question that needs an answer.
 
Kirk said:
Indeed, a decent, if slightly risky, opportunity to add to his profile. Thought he came across well.

Suspect many here would like to see Labour in government (ABB), it's just that a vocal minority on the thread want a certain flavour of Labour government. They are desperate for old management to return. Hence all the moaning about new management.
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The way I see it is that the unions swung behind Ed Milliband & he was elected leader & changed how future leaders were elected. So, in effect, the last 3 Labour leaders have been elected by either members or worker representation.

I’ve always voted Labour, with enthusiasm in Blair years as I thought things were changing for the better, bewilderment for Ed Milliband & almost nausea for Corbyn.

I hope I get the opportunity to vote for Starmer, I somehow doubt it.
 
TheDecameron said:
I’m reminded of a pfm member who, while not living in the US, insisted they were a Democrat supporter ( of the Bernie Sanders wing) yet in every post on the subject they boosted Trump relentlessly and when challenged, they proffered the clearly bogus explanation that it was because they disliked the then Democrat presidential candidate. Everyone saw through it except the member himself( apparently).
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LMAO.
 
Keith,

You’ve gone quiet. No comment from you on any of my replies to your earlier confusion, so can I take all is now fine?
 
You seemed to me to be supportive of the Labour Party aping the Tory Party’s use of the flag. You said no. I accept what you say. Did I miss something?
 
Seen a bit of Blair and Brown on the telly over the weekend. They seem like heavyweight politicians in comparison with the current leadership. Great communicators, especially Tony Blair.
 
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