advertisement


Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thought this was interesting in relation to Matthew's earlier post:

51175583289_61b4254577.jpg


There was some discussion earlier, here and elsewhere, on low income voters voting for the Tories, meaning Labour has lost the working class etc. Important to take into account age when talking about class at the moment.
and to take account of the number of voters in each age band. I was surprised how few Scottish teenage voters there were in last weeks election
 
Really, this is just lazy. Which older people are likely to be non-drivers or not hold passports? The answer isn't Tories is it. Where that the case, this wouldn't even be on the agenda.[/
Lots of poor people seem to be voting Tory so you can’t have it all ways. Aren’t bus passes photo IDs? The flip side is that lots of young people have photo IDs, they need them to get served in pubs.

It is really hard for me to care when people insist on acting against their own interests.
 
It will ensure that a person who is entitled to vote can actually vote.
Nobody dares to admit how much electoral fraud is suspected. I suspect it is a lot more than numbers of prosecutions would suggest. IMHO, it’s a small price to pay to ensure electoral fraud is eradicated.
So what are the figures for electoral fraud?
 
People talking about various photo ID, have they since changed the tune? Only the other day it was going to be a photo ID specific to voting that you will need, not just flashing you DL or passport. So we'll all need one no matter what you've already got in your wallet.
 
I guess that's OK then. System seems to be working, right?

66% of the whole Electorate engaged vs 40% of one demographic of the electorate not engaged suggests that it's working for more people than not.
 
So what are the figures for electoral fraud?
I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. It’s easy enough to find out official figures, but from my discussions with people who work at polling stations, I have absolutely no doubt that the official figures are way understated.
I really don’t see the problem here. I’ve seen many old and very poor people over the years and no one has ever failed to be able to produce photo id.
 
I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. It’s easy enough to find out official figures, but from my discussions with people who work at polling stations, I have absolutely no doubt that the official figures are way understated.

I had considered the fact that the official figures are those where someone suspected something and then evidence was sufficient for a conviction. Even so, if figures are understated, do you think the real figure is so high that the system needs changing to one that might disenfranchise people from the democratic process and you lose more votes than those cast fraudulently?
 
I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. It’s easy enough to find out official figures, but from my discussions with people who work at polling stations, I have absolutely no doubt that the official figures are way understated.
I really don’t see the problem here. I’ve seen many old and very poor people over the years and no one has ever failed to be able to produce photo id.
Did they report their suspicions? If not, then they themselves are at fault.
 
ID cards again for the snowflakes to whine on about...

There is no problem at all carrying an ID card, we need a national ID card. I carried one for 12 years between 1975-1987, somehow I survived this terrible ordeal and assault on democracy. :rolleyes:
 
If I don’t need a photo-ID to fill out and pay my tax return what right do the Conservative Party have in demanding one for my vote?

PS Not surprised the Brexit ultras are out and calling anyone who is concerned about civil rights and democracy ‘snowflakes’ etc. Farages gonna Farage.
 
I had considered the fact that the official figures are those where someone suspected something and then evidence was sufficient for a conviction. Even so, if figures are understated, do you think the real figure is so high that the system needs changing to one that might disenfranchise people from the democratic process and you lose more votes than those cast fraudulently?
I think it’s difficult to predict figures of how many would be disenfranchised. When asked the question, many people may suggest it would affect whether or not they would vote. In reality, people who wanted to vote still would. And those that couldn’t care less probably wouldn’t.
 
I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question. It’s easy enough to find out official figures, but from my discussions with people who work at polling stations, I have absolutely no doubt that the official figures are way understated.
I really don’t see the problem here. I’ve seen many old and very poor people over the years and no one has ever failed to be able to produce photo id.
Are you suggesting that people at polling stations do not report suspected fraud?
 
ID cards again for the snowflakes to whine on about...

There is no problem at all carrying an ID card, we need a national ID card. I carried one for 12 years between 1975-1987, somehow I survived this terrible ordeal and assault on democracy. :rolleyes:
Not really bothered about ID cards myself. Fact is though that we don’t have compulsory ID in this country, Boris won’t introduce it, so lots of people won’t get one and won’t be able to vote. Combined with proposed gerrymandering it will be enough to keep the Tories in power forever even if their 40% starts to erode. It all adds up.
 
I think it’s difficult to predict figures of how many would be disenfranchised. When asked the question, many people may suggest it would affect whether or not they would vote. In reality, people who wanted to vote still would. And those that couldn’t care less probably wouldn’t.
We’re often talking about small margins here: marginal levels of enthusiasm for voting, of ability to pay for it, of numbers required to form a government. I’ve read estimates of 2 million being disenfranchised by this, but it wouldn’t have to be anything like that, especially when this measure is combined with others.
 
If I don’t need a photo-ID to fill out and pay my tax return what right do the Conservative Party have in demanding one for my vote?
Maybe instead then they could cross check with your NI number. I’m not averse to some form of I’d being used. If there is more fraud than many of us believe then it’s more likely in local elections rather than GEs...but this really is only a gut feel.
 
I think it’s difficult to predict figures of how many would be disenfranchised.

Do you think it's more difficult than predicting figures of electoral fraud ? ;)

When asked the question, many people may suggest it would affect whether or not they would vote. In reality, people who wanted to vote still would. And those that couldn’t care less probably wouldn’t.

It's very unlikely to reinforce the existing levels of electoral engagement. There will be those who would like to vote but may find they don't have a suitable ID and as Sean says, have budget constraints so they can't justify purchasing one over other essentials. What is up for question is how many people fall in that group.
 
That would be less reliable than presenting two bills with your address on them. :)
I went thought this recently with my wife who is executor for her late mother’s estate. She needed 2 bill with her name on. Electronic bank statements were not allowed...this is the digital age so no paper statements. My wife doesn’t receive any bills in her name. How many people would 2 bills disenfranchise? There isn’t a perfect way.
 
Maybe instead then they could cross check with your NI number. I’m not averse to some form of I’d being used. If there is more fraud than many of us believe then it’s more likely in local elections rather than GEs...but this really is only a gut feel.

I’d have no personal objection to that, like most people I know mine from memory. My objection is the concept of forcing people who may well already feel utterly disenfranchised and alienated to actually purchase ID in order to vote in what is already a bullshit stacked system. Many of whom likely couldn’t afford the £80 for a passport even if they wanted one. It is yet another cynical attempt from the corrupt Tory right to bring their hard Trump-right politics to the UK. It is the exact opposite of democracy and political accountability.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top