Arlene Foster hanging by a thread.
- Thread starter Nic Robinson
- Start date
tones
Tones deaf
Tony, if you're interested, Queen's University, Belfast is hosting what appears to be a very good series of talks on Partition and its consequences, every Monday:
https://www.qub.ac.uk/talks-100/
I referred to them in the Partition of Ireland thread.
Did I say that?
I am actually listening to a podcast called ‘slow burn’ which is covering Iraq in this series. Very interesting.
droodzilla
pfm Member
The BBC documentary series makes it quite clear that Margaret Thatcher turned a blind eye to murder.
Tony L
Administrator
In other news: Kate Hoey is still Kate Hoey (London Economic).
-alan-
pfm Member
@droodzilla..
I have no doubt about that whatsoever. As I said at one stage before, there was a bloody war in progress there for 30 years. The UK Govt and indeed - despite all of the holier-than-thou protests to the contrary - leading Loyalist politicians were no less involved in condoning and encouraging 'off book' activities than their Sinn Fein counterparts. To imagine anything else is frankly, naive.
I have no doubt about that whatsoever. As I said at one stage before, there was a bloody war in progress there for 30 years. The UK Govt and indeed - despite all of the holier-than-thou protests to the contrary - leading Loyalist politicians were no less involved in condoning and encouraging 'off book' activities than their Sinn Fein counterparts. To imagine anything else is frankly, naive.
Sloop John B
And any old music will do…
I’m simply trying to show that Michelle O’Neill and Keir Stamer are not responsible for the sins of their predecessors and that Michelle has no blood on her hands.
I’m no great fan of Sinn Féin but realise that they have come on a journey towards peace. If I had a vote in Northern Ireland I’d be voting SDLP. However if that vote left the chance of a DUP seat I’d have no hesitation voting for Sinn Féin.
Ironically Irene’s stepping down speech is exactly the tone that is needed. I wonder if she is now sorry she didn’t stand up to the fundamentalist wing and actually run with the fact that the protocol which allowed one foot in the EU but slightly less than 2 feet in the UK has the potential to transform Northern Ireland economically.
It will be interesting to see if both unionist parties run with the effective policy of wanting the UKs biggest legally binding international trade deal to broken. I find myself humming Madness “Yesterday’s Men” quite frequently nowadays. It should feel as dated as “Free Nelson Mandela” but alas not.
.sjb
I largely agree with you, I just find the likes of McGuinness & Adam’s being ‘accepted’ into front line politics recently very difficult to take. McGuiness going into schools & reading to children etc when he was involved in some terrible things.
I appreciate you can make comparisons with other events but this just feels more visceral to me. I can’t really help that. Regardless of whether I have sympathy for a cause I will get massively turned off by certain tactics which, I feel, cannot be justified.
Seanm
pfm Member
Most of the people doing the killings on both sides were British agents. On at least one level the Troubles were basically a completely insane experiment in intelligence-gathering run by and for the British state. I don't think people have really come to terms with the fact that the British ran death squads within its own borders for years.
It does make me laugh to hear people tut over SF not renouncing their role in the violence. What do they think the Conservative Party is, exactly?
It does make me laugh to hear people tut over SF not renouncing their role in the violence. What do they think the Conservative Party is, exactly?
htm_1968
pfm Member
Interesting research on current attitudes to reunification as reported in today's Irish Independent published here. TL;DR majority down south want it but don't want to pay for it. Majority up north don't want it and feel it will render them worse off. As ever, there are huge numbers of 'Don't Know' responses whose view might change in the event of a poll requiring them to vote Yes or No.
andyoz
pfm Member
Yes, all it takes for the younger generation to get on board is a green bus with a few clever slogans on the side !!!
Although, I wouldn't mention Ireland's NHS equivalent on them, the HSE is a complete monetary black hole. €2billion to build a children's hospital anyone...
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
That’s outrageous. It doesn’t even need to be full size.
andyoz
pfm Member
Haha...I worked on initial designs about 15 years ago. It was all fancy curved glass and you could just see costs being insane. It should have been a €300m building if built as a boring box.
https://m.independent.ie/news/natio...reports-budget-could-exceed-2bn-40070481.html
Oh boy did they really go for it during the Celtic Tiger though Cork School of Music was a classic...In 2007 they had the record for the most baby grand Steinway's in a single order....about 60...they're bloody everywhere. There's even one in the foyer that I doubt has been played beyond the opening ceremony
tonerei
pfm Member
€300m for a childrens hospital
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/hea...ost-expensive-to-construct-in-world-1.2985568
The children's hospital is very complex so not sure how it would be built for €300m but no doubt building projects in Ireland often go way over budget. They would have gone with the lowest bidder but a lot of what happens to the spiralling costs is when they make changes to the spec.
But I don't think Ireland is any different to most parts of the world in terms of cost overruns in buildings. Try this one as a like for like comparison. https://fullfact.org/online/ireland-uk-tracing-app/ I would assume it is comparing apples and oranges but nice headline grabber.
The Steinway piano fiasco is Celtic Tiger prices alright but to give the academy and size of it a bit of context
'The oldest music school in Ireland or Britain, the Cork School of Music currently has a student population of over 2,000 and employs a staff of 127. The original building was demolished to make way for the new school and in the interim, students and staff have been using Moore's Hotel, Connolly Hall and 13 other venues around the city.
The 13,000sq m purpose-built new school includes a library, 52 teaching studios, a 500-seat auditorium, a 100-seat theatre and movement room, a recording studio, electronic music studio and music labs.'
kensalriser
pfm Member
It's both literally and figuratively yesterday's battle.
kendo
Prussian bot
And the consequences?
andyoz
pfm Member
I didn't say the current design could be built for €300m. I meant a more traditional shaped building that didn't try to win architect design awards. That hospital was always going to cust alot as designed. The main contractor BAM have played the government.
Re Steinways...Yamaha that cost a third the price would have been fine but no bragging rights there.
The studio is a mess too. Control rooms way too small and it's obviously been designed by a big committee
tonerei
pfm Member
This is the wrong thread for this left turn but it is more interesting than the misery the DUP are guaranteed to bring to the table.
If you are in the industry you know the score with BAM and how they operate.
The problem for a country the size of Ireland is having the expertise and skills to deal with this scale of contract when dealing with a company with BAM's experience. For me that is a reason for more federal Europe where this expertise would be shared among EU countries to bring down excessive costs. A standard blueprint for lots of sections would reduce costs.
Architecturally I think it is important to build something that stands the test of time and presents well for patients. Not at any cost. Ireland has enough Sam Stephenson type buildings and have excelled at knocking Georgian terraces to install concrete boxes into the old city centre.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...hospital-board-in-20m-costs-dispute-1.4532352
On the Steinways I agree it is excessive but hey 2007 was the swinging sixties for Ireland. The Steinways at least will last a long time compared to some of the more fanciful Celtic tiger spending. Ireland loves the arts so lots of political capital in providing funding in this area. This is an opinion piece by a Labour party guru (info for balance) https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-10121646.html
but it is more interesting than the misery the DUP are guaranteed to bring to the table.If you are in the industry you know the score with BAM and how they operate.
The problem for a country the size of Ireland is having the expertise and skills to deal with this scale of contract when dealing with a company with BAM's experience. For me that is a reason for more federal Europe where this expertise would be shared among EU countries to bring down excessive costs. A standard blueprint for lots of sections would reduce costs.
Architecturally I think it is important to build something that stands the test of time and presents well for patients. Not at any cost. Ireland has enough Sam Stephenson type buildings and have excelled at knocking Georgian terraces to install concrete boxes into the old city centre.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...hospital-board-in-20m-costs-dispute-1.4532352
On the Steinways I agree it is excessive but hey 2007 was the swinging sixties for Ireland. The Steinways at least will last a long time compared to some of the more fanciful Celtic tiger spending. Ireland loves the arts so lots of political capital in providing funding in this area. This is an opinion piece by a Labour party guru (info for balance
) https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-10121646.html
htm_1968
pfm Member
Moving the thread back towards the original topic, this was a less than glowing farewell. It is a real worry what the next few months might possibly bring unless some cool heads start to get people thinking and talking again. Hard to see that happening in the face of hardliners posturing for the vacant leadership.
tonerei
pfm Member
One lovely line 'The DUP wildly exaggerates the harms done by power sharing, claiming unionists are now second-class citizens.' Translated in to Queens English the Catholics are getting a small smidgen of parity. That is not the way the world works for the DUP's. They and Bojo are well matched.