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Thinking of selling it all, or massive downgrade at least......

Does the family not use it because they CBA? Or are they scared in case they break something? If the latter, then cheaper/easier to use, more ‘idiot proof’ (esp. the TT) might be the ticket. This means simplification, not necessarily a significant sacrifice in quality. There may be a balance to strike between ultimate performance level, and preparedness for all users to operate it. Tonearms, esp arms with megabucks carts, are intimidating things for the neophyte.
 
Perhaps, for some, maybe even the OP, coming from such lofty heights in Hifi terms. To assume that many would not be happy with such a system implies a certain amount of snobbery ... .

I think youve missed my point, Im not saying that many would not be happy, quite the opposite.

What I am saying is that digital streaming has levelled the quality of source to a homogenised level of mediocrity such that speakers as bland as ATC SCM50 (for example) are lauded as aspirational.

ATC are not alone in this, or indeed exceptionally bad, they are simply a symptom of reduced expectations.

I think things have regressed since starter systems used to be Rega2 , Creek 4040 , Royd A7.
 
You are getting a lot of interesting views here badger748

It occurs to me that during your hifi journey you have arrived at a particular sound/presentation that you like/enjoy.
I would be inclined to keep the amp and speakers as they work so well together and take a hard look at everything else, do you need all your sources
in the one system? I listen to the radio in the kitchen, car and the office when work allows and listen to vinyl and CD's in the sitting room.
Do you really need all those exotic cables?
I know nothing about your turntable other than it must be expensive, if you feel you need to replace it with something much cheaper, I'm sure you could still retain much of the SQ. A cheaper cartridge would be less stress.
How old are the kids, are they leaving the home nest soon? You may see the world differently then.

Colin
 
Interesting thread.
After many years in this (and other) hobby, you judge equipment emotionally. Take my nait2 and LS3/5A's. The Nait2 is my first serious hifi bit, and the LS3/5A's became mine by complete chance. I like these because of the story they tell. And because my personal image, as I wish it to be, blends well with the message these deliver - minimal, classy, environmental and all this shit. And it's from the 80's, the years of my adolescence which mean much to me. I can't see myself upgrading again dual hicaps to a supercap, a question of identity and values. One realizes that the chase never ends, that love is not 100% rational, and who cares rational anyway.
Omer.
 
I definitely got a bit obsessed with the hifi during lockdown particularly, had my own mini-cycle of upgraditis / tweaking followed by mild disillusionment / simplification.

My conclusion is that proper hifi is only worthwhile if it gives you (and your loved ones) goosebumps, yet at a price you're willing to pay.

I'm back on the upgrade track, but with a new found awareness that the subjective sweet spot is narrower than I'd previously assumed.
 
My big problem is getting attached to stuff owned for a long time, i still remember the day i got the old MA4s in the bathroom system and the friend who gave me the IMFs after he blew my Sony pair.

I'm sure that's the main reason the vinyl is still here, a lot of memories and a few rarities.

During lockdown i've rearranged a few bits, polished speakers where appropriate and listened to a lot.

Only purchase has been a gorgeous FM tuner for £50 but i love the concept of radio.

Everything obviously has a value but often the monetary value is insignificant compared to the emotional value and the joy of listening to it.

Main system is getting there after five years but sounds so good i guess it's a for life job.

Whenever anything becomes surplus i seem to have a child who wants an upgrade somewhere!
 
Lockdown has done odd things to us all.

Having spent 30 years building a half decent system, why would I think of changing it?
Not sure - lack of use, lack of enjoyment, sick of seeing massive depreciation?
Retail price today on my system well in excess of £100k.

Giving serious thought to selling the lot, and getting a simpler, cheaper system.
Anyone else been through this? Is is madness or cathartic?
I have been buying some old entry level gear recently and find I’m really enjoying it.
 
The older I get (I'm 56), the less interested I am in owning stuff. More specifically, I've been questioning why I own certain things, and whether I get enough enjoyment out of them to justify holding onto them. Corny it might be, but there's a lot of truth in the saying that your possessions own you. So while I am by no means going down the path of extreme Japanese minimalism, I am going through a process of simplifying my life with the aim of keeping only the things which actually matter to me in some way. Personally, I'm really enjoying it, though I can understand why the mere thought of it would induce a panic attack in some others.

IMO, thinking of the process as downgrading/downsizing is coming at it from the wrong angle. It's about finding the right system for you at this point in your life. The big system obviously gave you a lot of pleasure in the past, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the right system for you now.
 
I have had a record player [simple Sony separates for the first seventeen years] since 1982/3.

Before that I had the use of a quite adequate record player and radio for Radio Three. Not as good as now, but at the time quite good.

In year 1999, I was persuaded by a friend that my old Sony integrated amp was really not longer quite up to snuff, and sometimes it would start with only one side working. Often turning off once would cause it to restart properly, but it was definitely getting worse. I did not really mind, but I went and auditioned some new things at Audio Excellence in Worcester. Yes they were in some ways very obviously better, and yet on the whole a trifle dull ...

I commented that if that was the state of the art for entry level quality equipment then that would have to do. As this is no ringing endorsement, I shall not mention the name of the admirable UK made kit.

So just at the end the sales guy suggested letting him make a recommendation. Naim CD 3.5 and Nait 3, which was fine, it being slightly less money than what I had thought of. I have to confess that I then went on what is a fairly normal path of Naim upgraditis. To be fair to Naim, they had a clear hierarchy back then and each exchange did bring qualitative improvements. The best thing I had from Naim was the CDS2 and XPS. If not the XPS, then whatever the suitable PS was. This was a gift from my Norwegian grandmother and therefore was something with an emotional attachment that did not all come from the actual quality of it with CDs. However and despite this player being a "gift from a warm hand" as my grandmother put it - she died two months later - I eventually had to sell it because of rising rents and static wages in the food industry at the time. To sell it, it had to be serviced as the transport was wearing out, and the hinge top cover also was worn out. Shiela at Naim said that she had never seen the hinge worn so far in all her years, and was amazed the transport could have kept up. New Transport, PIC upgraded and new top cover [including ultra-smooth] new hinge fitted gratis ... And then sold as a nigh mint machine with a two month old work-sheet from Naim HQ ... sold easily in fact. The new owner could not get over the fact that it was actually mint cosmetically to match its back to new performance.

I went hard disc using iTunes after that. Did it matter? Not really. I still am using iTunes, but these days using the headphone outlet on my MAC Mini [rather than a dedicated DAC] as electrical source for a reasonable Sanstrom speaker, which was really intended, I suppose, to make a good quality for a flat screen TV! I listen as much now as I ever did, though slanted more towards radio these days.

For that I have my veteran wireless set of Leak Trough-Line mono VHF/FM tuner [made in 1957 and restored two years ago by John Casswell of this Parish], a second-hand Quad II Forty, and a single ESL also made in 1957 [rebuilt at Huntingdon four years ago]. So nowadays my wireless and my recordings come from two entirely separate sets. The radio wins of course, but I do enjoy listening to live evening concerts, or Choral Evensong on Radio Three. It has to be added that this radio set is absolutely horrible on pop music, but that is alright. I would not wear high rent valves on it in any case. Youtube is fine for that on headphones from the MAC.

The point of this is that the value of my equipment all totted up would be less than £2000, for radio and recordings. My musical appreciation is actually something that has helped me, from time to time, enter a happier state over the last twelve months. Yes Covid has brought circumstances where one questions everything, and yet the old radio set is a total comfort.

I am not prescribing selling or keeping much more exalted kit than I have, but if you love music, I can definitely assure you that spending five figures plus in pounds sterling, is not necessary to achieve a sufficiently enjoyable quality to be drawn effortlessly into music. In reality what I have now on the radio side is the most enjoyable set I have ever had. Okay the digital side is what most would call definitely second or even third rank, but it does nicely enough.

My advice would be to obtain a carefully chosen new, used or even veteran [priced as you think fit] replay set that does what you need, and live with it for a while - say six months - and if you find that your listening is as much or even more ... Sell the posh stuff.

_____________

In my double bass playing days I had two really good instruments. One was Fendt bass made in London about 1770 to 1780. This could be attributed with some precision not just from the characteristic work of the maker, but also the typical use of joined narrow planks in the front. Later, even double basses would use a single plank cut and joined at the centre-line like a violin. This dated it to circa pre-1790, when more expensive broad planks would be sacrificed to the double bass. Don't forget you can make about twelve violins from the same wood that goes into the front of a double bass. Well I knew it was a very valuable instrument, but I was frightened of it being damaged. I loved the way it projected and played, but was really not happy about leaving it unattended say between a rehearsal and evening concert. It was valued in 1991 at £14,000. This was not good, because insurance [with the British Reserve Company] was something like ten per cent of insured value per annum, and valuation was essential to ensure that claims were not scaled back [for repairs] with an under-valuation. Consequently it was not insured at all, and it inevitably met a bad and expensive accident when left unattended. I was carrying another bass to a friend's car after a concert in Stroud, and returned for mine after tackling the artists' stairs with his.

I got home and had a very bad feeling. I took the cover off ... Tears came to my eyes. I had spent about £3,500 on a complete restoration eighteen months before, and it was little better than it had been before being brought back to life. I bought the relic for £200.

I sold it to the trade, after it was rebuilt, for £7,000. That netted me £4,000 after repair costs. So I owned it for two years at no financial loss. No gain either. A string set for it [Viennese gut strings] was about £600, but the experience was tremendous. I bought an Ex-BT Maestro van as my VW diesel Golf had lunched its engine, and put the rest towards a newly commissioned double bass. By now I was getting proper ad hoc paid work in the West Midlands, so needed a first quality instrument. I had to borrow one of two instrument from my former teacher [ex-player in the RLPO] for twelve months and that was just as worrying as my old London bass. That had the interesting provenance of having been owned by Gustav Holst from before 1914 to 1934 when he died. It then lingered in a school music department unplayed and unloved till I had it rebuilt.

Anyway I had a five stringer made such that it was fine enough to work with the same Viennese gut strings used on the Baroque bass. I had that bass for seven years [1995-2002] and never feared for it. It was valued such that I could afford to insure it. In reality it was the better instrument with fantastic tone and the best projection of any instrument I ever played. It could be a real dynamic monster in Romantic Music!!! While still delightfully pure in JS Bach.

The bombshell that occurred with respect to the Fendt was that its actual valuation was out by an order of magnitude. Anywhere from £100,000 to £150,000. and I sold it for seven grand! Those days it was the Japanese collectors who put a real boost in these old instruments' value.

That piece of intelligence came from my third bass teacher [in 1996], who is still the first bass in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. This revelation caused my second teacher [who loaned me either of his two Old English basses in the interegnum] to give up playing as he himself took serious advice and found that between them his two instruments were worth more than his nice three bedroom house - at that time in the mid-nineties. Sad really. Too valuable to use.

If I had known the value of the Holst/Fendt, I would never have used it.

It shows that too much value really does spoil the fun actually.

Sorry for the ramble.

Best wishes from George

Thread on the two basses mentioned... https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/two-great-english-double-basses.228871/#post-3690985

What a superb post!
 
Enjoyable thread.

I too have felt that too much equipment / too much money invested in a stereo system can feel heavy and a distraction from the (separate) hobby of enjoying music.

I guess there's a balance for each us each to find.
 
I have a bunch of gear kicking around, but when I’m listening to Roon through a raspberry pi > the digital input of a Yamaha A-S801 and my Vienna Acoustics Bach Grands, I often think “why do I need more?”

the only time I think of upgrades is when I’m not listening

(it was therapeutic typing that out as I’m ALWYAS thinking of upgrades when not listening)
 
I have not really downsized footprintwise, more like just pick up gear that is competitive in a modest sized room in that high end sort of way without sinking in thousands. Gear that is shunned by snobs and therefore avoids the inflation going on with some of the more accepted hyped stuff, i.e Linn Kans, Nak Dragons, Naim olive preamps etc etc - my system is not the definitive example, it’s merely indictative of high price does not always = fidelity or best quality.

The Pioneer A400 is to many just Jap crap but in fact an incredible ‘power amp’ with a potentiometer and source selection built in, that alone should tell you its a close stab at the amplifer idealised maxim of being a ‘piece of straight wire with gain’ - nothing I can think of except the very legit high-end amps is as resolving as this, as honest as this, as intimidating as this, or as cheap as this. Make sure you get one that works both channels though.

Mission 752 Freedoms (driven by the A400), inert compact cabinets. Make sure the bass and tweeter face plates are sufficiently tightened, they sit 15 cm from a solid wall so is as unintrusive as a floorstander can get. Stupid ‘reach out and touch’ midrange / vocal projection. The F4 Unipivot tonearm IMO further lifts midrange projection a fair bit like how my old ARO did to the LP12. Then there is the sweeeeet HF performance and transient response without listening fatigue, and delivers all the PRAT you can eat - they cost me £170 collected back in Jan - stupendous VFM. If the A400 was so pants, surely the 752FR’s would not achieve the above level of reproduction.

The Audio Technica AT440Mlb (or specifically its stylus) is mid range aluminium cantilever offering coupled with the ML tip, attached to this is an old low inductance AT150EA MM cart body, all run through a modest Cambridge audio phono stage it’s pretty much unbeatable across all genres of music, detail, resolution, wide frequency response and plenty of meaningful content above 12khz, pace, never boring, makes most of most records - makes many of the usual hyped-up elliptical MC carts sound broken.

If Audio Technica are so pants in the audiophile context and belongs in a pub DJ’s rig, the 752’s or my headphones and the A400 would not reveal so much music detail and content.

Cable Talk 3.1 speaker cables, sensible multistrand ofc cables and similar design to the NACA 4 & 5 with the thick sleeving and maintaining the gap between + & - runs to minimise capacitance. Add little, take away little, let the source and amp do the talking - like all good cables should be in the real world.

I am a tapehead, and cant think of a better ‘playlist’ of music from Vinyl than recording a mixtape from a good Nakamichi deck. The CR5 and CR7’s are a serious no dicking around tool for that. Like all real high fidelity products, they add little and take away little, I can make near identical recordings ( peak db of +5 on Maxell MX or Metal Vertex cassettes to remain under 3% THD) of the above vinyl replay system ( or straight from a DAC) that you need to A/B the $*** out of it for 15 minutes straight to work out where the very slight loss of fidelity is. And these are 30 year old machines!

If cassette is such a poor analog / hifi source, why does vocals and instruments from a recording still hang free acoustically, image consistently and retain very much the sense of pace, tonal balance and very detailed presentation of the AT ML cart through the 752 freedoms amplified by the ‘terrible’ A400?

TL;DR version, plenty of underated and very impressive gear out there if you are prepared to get out of usual the high-end cirkus.
 
Once I compared a Linn cd-player (Mimik or Genki, I can't remember) to a Naim player and it sounded sooooooo dull. Combined with my Classik experience I find it too hard to ever give Linn another try.
That’d be a Mimik then, they are dull, very dull... don’t write Linn off based on your experience of a Classik and a Mimik. The Genki is loads better than the Mimik and most certainly not dull at all. The Ikemi is on another level again, stunning CD player and easily the equal of a CDX2 in my experience... and I’m just listening to my new LP12, not regretting buying it one bit.
 
Any CD player will sound dull compared to a CDX\CDX2. I had an Arcam DVD / CD player floating around once and playing music on that after the CDX experience nearly put me into a coma!

That said, problem with the X models is they dont sound ‘analog’ enough compared to say the CDS range of players or modern higher end DAC/ Streamers.
 
I came to this conclusion not long ago. I had three systems. A critical listening system in a small dedicated listening room. Large home theater in the living room as well as my big dog HiFi in the living room. The HT set up on one wall (and surrounds) and the HiFi on another. Sooo much stuff. I was the only one who could use it...that hasn’t changed.

What changed was my mindset relative to monopolizing every inch of available space in the home. My discomfort when guests would visit. I woke up one day and said this must change! It was fun and I kind of miss all of that, but I mostly do not.

Fast forward and I no longer have any system in the living room. When my wife and I want to sing along or have fun with music one of us will grab a portable Bluetooth speaker and play music from Tidal or Qobuz. I still have a very small dedicated listening room where I can unwind or decompress. I have just a few bits and bobs that I can change around for fun. With retirement coming next year this feels freeing.

Now everyone has the living room back and that means more fun for everyone, not just me. Like the OP, my passion for music hasn’t waned at all. I’m still a voracious consumer of all kinds of music, new and old. My little system gives me tons of joy. Once I buy a streamer (probably a Bluesound) I am done, unless something breaks or I sell something.

Feels good to own my system rather than have it own me, and the rest of the family. Makes my music time and family time more special and feels like things are in their proper perspective.
 
However, in your shoes I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water and make any rash decisions, instead I'd do this:
  • Keep the turntable
  • Keep the speakers
  • Keep the phono pre
However, pit *everything else* (including accessories)

This was very much my take, as well. Decisions like this often appear to be zero-sum, but you don't have to sell everything or keep everything. @badger748 , you have a rad TT and speakers - fellow Devore owner here - so keep those items, particularly since they look good. Put the rest of the kit in a closet for a bit, throw a cheap cartridge on the Thales, encourage your family to use it, then consider your options. I think a Line Magnetic integrated or even something like a Nait 5 (there's a nice one for sale in the classifieds, BTW) would be great alongside a relatively cheap and "hideable" Roon endpoint and DAC.

Tony pretty much nailed it from Jump Street: if you're not feeling compelled to explore new tunes, then it doesn't matter how good your system is. Likewise, if your family and friends are terrified to put on some music, that's no good, either. Sounds like it's time to make a change.
 
I came to this conclusion not long ago. I had three systems. A critical listening system in a small dedicated listening room. Large home theater in the living room as well as my big dog HiFi in the living room. The HT set up on one wall (and surrounds) and the HiFi on another. Sooo much stuff. I was the only one who could use it...that hasn’t changed.

What changed was my mindset relative to monopolizing every inch of available space in the home. My discomfort when guests would visit. I woke up one day and said this must change! It was fun and I kind of miss all of that, but I mostly do not.

Fast forward and I no longer have any system in the living room. When my wife and I want to sing along or have fun with music one of us will grab a portable Bluetooth speaker and play music from Tidal or Qobuz. I still have a very small dedicated listening room where I can unwind or decompress. I have just a few bits and bobs that I can change around for fun. With retirement coming next year this feels freeing.

Now everyone has the living room back and that means more fun for everyone, not just me. Like the OP, my passion for music hasn’t waned at all. I’m still a voracious consumer of all kinds of music, new and old. My little system gives me tons of joy. Once I buy a streamer (probably a Bluesound) I am done, unless something breaks or I sell something.

Feels good to own my system rather than have it own me, and the rest of the family. Makes my music time and family time more special and feels like things are in their proper perspective.

excellent

I did something similar. Had two full systems going but replaced the one in the living room with a Mu-so. It looks better, takes up way less space, less cables...and most importantly my wife actually uses it.
 


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