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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XII

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The narrative back when was that Leave voters knew exactly what they were voting for. Any attempt to say otherwise was labelled arrogant, looking down on, Remainer elitism, etc. All part of the Big Lie of course.
 
No, "we" didn't.
The politicians did, on our behalf.
As it turns out, they are simply not as competent as needed, Labour or Tory.
Whatever, the decision was made.
"We" did indeed take back control. Like it said on the poster. "We" all voted, "We" then elected 2 more governments to do the work. That is all the control that "we" get, that "we" will ever get. The decision has indeed been made, several times over. There's no ignoring the election results. Now look what "we", actually, no, only some of us, asked for. Well done.
 
Boris and a Arlene meet on the beach of the Irish Sea. It's too treacherous to cross, so Boris nicely asks Arlene to carry him across on her back. This makes Arlene a little suspicious. She asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” Boris says, “Because we are better together.” That sound reasoning relaxes Arlene's nerves. So she allows Boris to climb aboard and they shove off across the choppy waters. They get halfway across and Boris stings Arlene directly in the middle of her back. Arlene feels the onset of Boris' poison and starts to sink. She manages one dying breath: "Why?!" And Boris replies: “It’s in my nature…”
 
Tedious insistance that the EU compromise the single market we chose to leave, in order to solve a UK problem of it's own creation which it's now choosing to try and ignore having sold out it's DUP allies along the way. If the roles were reversed in the same negotiation no way would Johnson and Frost see it as their problem to solve.

This was a problem Brexiters chose to pretend didn't exist because it is suddenly inconvenient.



AKA as "why don't they just do what we want".



It's genuinely hilarious how international law, agreements and treaties can suddenly be light touch and “reasonable” because they no longer suit a completely different border situatiuon we have embarked on unilaterally. If only the other parties would bury their intransigence to unilateral change forced on them, everything would be fine.

You think this shouldn't be a problem because you, like many others here didn't give a shite and don't see why this Irish tail should wag the English Brexit dog. The bluster and pretence that this was not going to be an issue, was just another piece of Brexit B/S, albeit a rather serious one.

So, the brain-dead rock of EU fundamentalism progresses at rapidly accelerating speed towards the very hard place of bone-headed Irish sectarianism, but that's just fine with Steve S1, as long as no 'international' (aka EU) laws are compromised.
 
<snip>
The absence of proportion, balance, respect for history, and imagination on this issue by the Commission is mirrored in the demented utterings of the more evangelistic kind of EUphile, for whom there is simply no way but the EU way.

Brexit has happened. It is how we deal with the issues raised by the departure of the UK from the EU that matters now. In the case of NI this requires tact, flexibility, imagination, diplomacy and statesmanship on the part of the Commission and EU leaders, qualities that are very evidently entirely missing.
The bit in bold made me pause for a moment. Essentially, what you are arguing* is that:

"if only the EU wasn't behaving in the way that I've criticised for years, this could be sorted"

That's a bit of an odd position. If the EU didn't behave as you say, you'd not have wanted to leave, surely? But you expect/require it to behave differently now? Out of remorse for driving us away, perhaps?


*I'm not endorsing or agreeing, just summarising
 
I suppose the good thing about Brexit is that I haven't had to see Gove for a few weeks. Where is the slithy bugger?
 
Tedious insistance that the EU compromise the single market we chose to leave, in order to solve a UK problem of it's own creation which it's now choosing to try and ignore having sold out it's DUP allies along the way. If the roles were reversed in the same negotiation no way would Johnson and Frost see it as their problem to solve.

This was a problem Brexiters chose to pretend didn't exist because it is suddenly inconvenient.



AKA as "why don't they just do what we want".



It's genuinely hilarious how international law, agreements and treaties can suddenly be light touch and “reasonable” because they no longer suit a completely different border situatiuon we have embarked on unilaterally. If only the other parties would bury their intransigence to unilateral change forced on them, everything would be fine.

You think this shouldn't be a problem because you, like many others here didn't give a shite and don't see why this Irish tail should wag the English Brexit dog. The bluster and pretence that this was not going to be an issue, was just another piece of Brexit B/S, albeit a rather serious one.

Spot on. Standard detached self absorbed Tory supporter who blindly goes where ever Bojo points his todger and to hell with the consequences. One can always write a word salad dismissing the obvious and carry on up the brexit.
 
It appears that you wouldn't see the obvious even when it jumped up and smacked you on the nose.
 
It appears that you wouldn't see the obvious even when it jumped up and smacked you on the nose.

As usual, no solutions just demands from others who didn’t create the problem that they do as you require. You must have gone through your business life in a very charmed way with this level of preparation, tactical planning and negotiating prowess. It’s just one of the more serious of the incompatible Brexit promises that is coming home to roost. It was dismissed as part of Project Fear.
 
I bet you that most people in mainland UK did not consider the NI situation when they voted.
And that includes remain voters and leave voters.

You obviously didn't but it was high on the agenda. Your party purged all the sensible politicians in the Tory party who outlined all the problems. Remember this was one of the planks of Project Fear. Really catch up it is all just copy cat DTrumpf tactics for the Englanders. The leave voters bought it hook line and sinker same as the stop the steal rabble in the states.

It played out throughout the negotiations and was subject to multiple interventions from former Prime Ministers.
You have to ask yourself the logic of having a referendum on something so fundamentally important with an audience who have no idea on what they are voting on or no interest in educating themselves.
 
I bet you that most people in mainland UK did not consider the NI situation when they voted.
And that includes remain voters and leave voters.

I wouldn’t make that assumption, the people who brought the GFA to fruition certainly made plenty of it. I think you are confusing not considering with not giving one. Bit like them not giving a stuff about the effect on so much else that doesn’t directly affect them, exporters, ex-pats, Gibraltar, JIT supplies, Financial Services - so much not to give one about if you know nothing about them, it’s hard to know where to start.
 
I bet you that most people in mainland UK did not consider the NI situation when they voted.
And that includes remain voters and leave voters.

I did think about it and was of the view that one reason that Brexit couldn't/wouldn't happen is that there couldn't be a reasonable answer on the NI situation.
While I was right on the NI situation I was sadly wrong on Brexit! A situation where NI was effectively left in the EU with the rest of us Brexiting always seemed like madness that'd lead to the current challenges.
 
The narrative back when was that Leave voters knew exactly what they were voting for. Any attempt to say otherwise was labelled arrogant, looking down on, Remainer elitism, etc. All part of the Big Lie of course.
Of course Leave voters knew what they were voting for. Here you are:
WXOecyM.jpg
Can we please have this as a sticky? It's the best comment on the whole subject.
 
I wouldn’t make that assumption, the people who brought the GFA to fruition certainly made plenty of it. I think you are confusing not considering with not giving one. Bit like them not giving a stuff about the effect on so much else that doesn’t directly affect them, exporters, ex-pats, Gibraltar, JIT supplies, Financial Services - so much not to give one about if you know nothing about them, it’s hard to know where to start.
How can you or I consider the lived reality of somewhere like NI, if you don't have direct experience?
I have the same view for the Scottish independence issue btw.
It isn't for me to say how people stuck hundreds of miles from Westminster feel about our governance.
My honest view. My heart always sags when I hear about NI politics. The past is continually dredged up. It feels like groundhog day.
If you really want to know what I think, I believe that somehow Ireland should become reunited. But that's easy for me to say, as I don't live there.
 
How can you or I consider the lived reality of somewhere like NI, if you don't have direct experience?
I have the same view for the Scottish independence issue btw.
It isn't for me to say how people stuck hundreds of miles from Westminster feel about our governance.
My honest view. My heart always sags when I hear about NI politics. The past is continually dredged up. It feels like groundhog day.
If you really want to know what I think, I believe that somehow Ireland should become reunited. But that's easy for me to say, as I don't live there.

You should run that past those like Arleen and Sammy who supported Brexit on the assurance from Boris and the ERG that they wouldn’t be. Lots of luck with that.
 
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