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Thinking of selling it all, or massive downgrade at least......

There are some great points here.

One thing I suffer from is an over-active imagination with a lack of any real reference point for where I want my hifi to head. That leads to me buying components I've lusted over, imagining how 'jaw-dropping' it'll be based on reviews I've read, only to find that whilst often good, NO component has ever left me feeling as giddy as I day-dream I will be before having bought it.

Now, if I was sat down and shown what the best stereo I can get is using a few adjectives that I THINK I want from a system, I'd probably just accept my lot and realise I'm actually not actually that far away from what I can reasonably expect a £20k system to sound like. But the problem I have is that none of my mates have high-end rigs, hi-fi shops only have a limited selection of components (and I'd rather buy second hand and save money anyways), and hifi shows are hard to get to for me. So apart from having a couple of adjectives in mind - 'musical' and 'involving' - I don't really know what the f*** I want.

Case in point: I recently sold an Audio Note OTO for a New Audio Frontiers amp, which was twice the RRP. It was better, but was it £10k better? No chance. I've now sold the NAF for some DIY gear. Sounds the bloody same to me. I also have an Audio Note TT2 deluxe with AN Arm and cartridge, and honestly, can barely hear the difference between that and Tidal through a Chromecast Audio.

But then, that's half the fun isn't it? It's the journey, not the destination. And tbh, if I did ever get to a point where I knew I was FINALLY happy with my stereo, if only find some other crap to spend my money on. I'm just glad I don't have any kids yet...
 
My software takes up much more space than hardware, so no point in downgrading hardware unless I digitize way too many albums.
 
If your were to simplify might I suggest some Dutch & Dutch 8C active speakers. Add a streamer and you’d have a system that would probably sound at least as good as your 100k one, maybe better.
 
Advancing years has had a rather different effect on me; I’m trying to create an end game system that I can enjoy for what it does and without me feeling the urge to upgrade. I’ve found my final amp and I have a couple of speaker options that I will be exploring.
 
I sold it all, a massively expensive Linn Klimax system, about three years ago and got rid of any evidence of ever having owned it (for fear of looking back and regretting it). I kept my then second system, tri-amped Linn Ninka system with a Rega P5 turntable, and pressed it into service as my main system. As it happens, I haven’t regretted it, I freed up a significant sum of cash while helped greatly with a necessary house move. Inevitably, I’ve spent a bit of money since, having added a Linn Klimax Renew DS, Linn Ikemi and earlier today, a very nice LP12, but I still only have a fraction of the money invested, and I have an absolutely superb sounding system.
 
I suspect my system would be around the £50k retail level if I were to buy it's equivalent now but to be honest having purchased most of it secondhand over the past decades I've probably spent £20k on it. The thing is it gives me huge pleasure and I listen to as much music now as I did as a student dreaming of a system like this.

After over a decade with no upgrades in fact I have in the past couple of years upgraded quite a bit to finally get to the level I have been seeking all these years. Now it feels like hi-fi with little/no compromise and I'm just enjoying the music so no it's not for sale!! Will I downsize if I had to or if I move into a retirement flat in 20 years (I'm 52) yes maybe, but maybe not!! My hi-fi has been very slowly and carefully assembled and I really do love it!!

Birdseed007
 
I think you downsizing buggers are all daft. I couldn’t enjoy music as much without the detail, density, scale and sheer bloody hellness of the system I have now. Needs must when I retire and perhaps I have to downsize but one big room will be a priority.

Each to their own I suppose.

You can get all that without paying five figure sums for lots of boxes - I understand you get bored easily, got no time to research or experiment as ‘time is money’ etc etc so it’s easier to throw money at high end rip off brands to get close to what you’re happy with that’s fine, but you really need to stop making out that going for the most expensive of anything is the *only* way.
 
I have had a record player [simple Sony separates for the first seventeen years] since 1982/3.

Before that I had the use of a quite adequate record player and radio for Radio Three. Not as good as now, but at the time quite good.

In year 1999, I was persuaded by a friend that my old Sony integrated amp was really not longer quite up to snuff, and sometimes it would start with only one side working. Often turning off once would cause it to restart properly, but it was definitely getting worse. I did not really mind, but I went and auditioned some new things at Audio Excellence in Worcester. Yes they were in some ways very obviously better, and yet on the whole a trifle dull ...

I commented that if that was the state of the art for entry level quality equipment then that would have to do. As this is no ringing endorsement, I shall not mention the name of the admirable UK made kit.

So just at the end the sales guy suggested letting him make a recommendation. Naim CD 3.5 and Nait 3, which was fine, it being slightly less money than what I had thought of. I have to confess that I then went on what is a fairly normal path of Naim upgraditis. To be fair to Naim, they had a clear hierarchy back then and each exchange did bring qualitative improvements. The best thing I had from Naim was the CDS2 and XPS. If not the XPS, then whatever the suitable PS was. This was a gift from my Norwegian grandmother and therefore was something with an emotional attachment that did not all come from the actual quality of it with CDs. However and despite this player being a "gift from a warm hand" as my grandmother put it - she died two months later - I eventually had to sell it because of rising rents and static wages in the food industry at the time. To sell it, it had to be serviced as the transport was wearing out, and the hinge top cover also was worn out. Shiela at Naim said that she had never seen the hinge worn so far in all her years, and was amazed the transport could have kept up. New Transport, PIC upgraded and new top cover [including ultra-smooth] new hinge fitted gratis ... And then sold as a nigh mint machine with a two month old work-sheet from Naim HQ ... sold easily in fact. The new owner could not get over the fact that it was actually mint cosmetically to match its back to new performance.

I went hard disc using iTunes after that. Did it matter? Not really. I still am using iTunes, but these days using the headphone outlet on my MAC Mini [rather than a dedicated DAC] as electrical source for a reasonable Sanstrom speaker, which was really intended, I suppose, to make a good quality for a flat screen TV! I listen as much now as I ever did, though slanted more towards radio these days.

For that I have my veteran wireless set of Leak Trough-Line mono VHF/FM tuner [made in 1957 and restored two years ago by John Casswell of this Parish], a second-hand Quad II Forty, and a single ESL also made in 1957 [rebuilt at Huntingdon four years ago]. So nowadays my wireless and my recordings come from two entirely separate sets. The radio wins of course, but I do enjoy listening to live evening concerts, or Choral Evensong on Radio Three. It has to be added that this radio set is absolutely horrible on pop music, but that is alright. I would not wear high rent valves on it in any case. Youtube is fine for that on headphones from the MAC.

The point of this is that the value of my equipment all totted up would be less than £2000, for radio and recordings. My musical appreciation is actually something that has helped me, from time to time, enter a happier state over the last twelve months. Yes Covid has brought circumstances where one questions everything, and yet the old radio set is a total comfort.

I am not prescribing selling or keeping much more exalted kit than I have, but if you love music, I can definitely assure you that spending five figures plus in pounds sterling, is not necessary to achieve a sufficiently enjoyable quality to be drawn effortlessly into music. In reality what I have now on the radio side is the most enjoyable set I have ever had. Okay the digital side is what most would call definitely second or even third rank, but it does nicely enough.

My advice would be to obtain a carefully chosen new, used or even veteran [priced as you think fit] replay set that does what you need, and live with it for a while - say six months - and if you find that your listening is as much or even more ... Sell the posh stuff.

_____________

In my double bass playing days I had two really good instruments. One was Fendt bass made in London about 1770 to 1780. This could be attributed with some precision not just from the characteristic work of the maker, but also the typical use of joined narrow planks in the front. Later, even double basses would use a single plank cut and joined at the centre-line like a violin. This dated it to circa pre-1790, when more expensive broad planks would be sacrificed to the double bass. Don't forget you can make about twelve violins from the same wood that goes into the front of a double bass. Well I knew it was a very valuable instrument, but I was frightened of it being damaged. I loved the way it projected and played, but was really not happy about leaving it unattended say between a rehearsal and evening concert. It was valued in 1991 at £14,000. This was not good, because insurance [with the British Reserve Company] was something like ten per cent of insured value per annum, and valuation was essential to ensure that claims were not scaled back [for repairs] with an under-valuation. Consequently it was not insured at all, and it inevitably met a bad and expensive accident when left unattended. I was carrying another bass to a friend's car after a concert in Stroud, and returned for mine after tackling the artists' stairs with his.

I got home and had a very bad feeling. I took the cover off ... Tears came to my eyes. I had spent about £3,500 on a complete restoration eighteen months before, and it was little better than it had been before being brought back to life. I bought the relic for £200.

I sold it to the trade, after it was rebuilt, for £7,000. That netted me £4,000 after repair costs. So I owned it for two years at no financial loss. No gain either. A string set for it [Viennese gut strings] was about £600, but the experience was tremendous. I bought an Ex-BT Maestro van as my VW diesel Golf had lunched its engine, and put the rest towards a newly commissioned double bass. By now I was getting proper ad hoc paid work in the West Midlands, so needed a first quality instrument. I had to borrow one of two instrument from my former teacher [ex-player in the RLPO] for twelve months and that was just as worrying as my old London bass. That had the interesting provenance of having been owned by Gustav Holst from before 1914 to 1934 when he died. It then lingered in a school music department unplayed and unloved till I had it rebuilt.

Anyway I had a five stringer made such that it was fine enough to work with the same Viennese gut strings used on the Baroque bass. I had that bass for seven years [1995-2002] and never feared for it. It was valued such that I could afford to insure it. In reality it was the better instrument with fantastic tone and the best projection of any instrument I ever played. It could be a real dynamic monster in Romantic Music!!! While still delightfully pure in JS Bach.

The bombshell that occurred with respect to the Fendt was that its actual valuation was out by an order of magnitude. Anywhere from £100,000 to £150,000. and I sold it for seven grand! Those days it was the Japanese collectors who put a real boost in these old instruments' value.

That piece of intelligence came from my third bass teacher [in 1996], who is still the first bass in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. This revelation caused my second teacher [who loaned me either of his two Old English basses in the interegnum] to give up playing as he himself took serious advice and found that between them his two instruments were worth more than his nice three bedroom house - at that time in the mid-nineties. Sad really. Too valuable to use.

If I had known the value of the Holst/Fendt, I would never have used it.

It shows that too much value really does spoil the fun actually.

Sorry for the ramble.

Best wishes from George

Thread on the two basses mentioned... https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/two-great-english-double-basses.228871/#post-3690985
 
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Advancing years has had a rather different effect on me; I’m trying to create an end game system that I can enjoy for what it does and without me feeling the urge to upgrade. I’ve found my final amp and I have a couple of speaker options that I will be exploring.
Hi Ian’s, interested to know what your final amp is?
 
I don’t get it, I have to admit. The whole point of middle age to my mind is to have the resources to buy the stuff one craved in younger days but could in no way afford.....
Tony, most of us have to deal with families, grandkids around maybe.
Having 100k HiFi with toddlers around is terrifying.
Running vintage but not priceless gear means if something gets spoiled, tough its not the end of the world
 
If you're still interested in playing music through good equipment, active speakers are a huge door opener. I would start with ATC40A or 50A. Or qualitatively comparable floorstanding speakers. Then the question is whether records are still in the game. If not, a HTPC and a DAC/(riaa)Pre are still missing. Finished. The system is flexible, very reduced from the equipment park and yet it can convey the joy of music.
One should want this step consciously (!). It is logical, feasible without great disadvantages, liberating.
You have only one life. It's too bad to waste it on excessive male symbols. Man should be clear about whether (many) watches, overdimensinierte cars, a sprawling stereo pimp their own ego rather than that they are useful.
With the money you could travel so great ;-)
 
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You can get all that without paying five figure sums for lots of boxes - I understand you get bored easily, got no time to research or experiment as ‘time is money’ etc etc so it’s easier to throw money at high end rip off brands to get close to what you’re happy with that’s fine, but you really need to stop making out that going for the most expensive of anything is the *only* way.

You have no idea whether I “get bored”, whether I do research, or the background to any of my buying choices. When did I say buying the most expensive is the only way?

I am not a box swapper, rather I have bought (used) the best pair of speakers I’ve ever heard that I can afford and am trying to drive them the best I can while my ears are still good enough to benefit from the experience. Life is not a rehearsal. You only get one shot at it.
 
Like I've said before and actually done myself; a downsize doesn't need to be a downgrade in sound quality. In fact if you choose well you can have a lot less HiFi and still achieve the same if not better results.
 
Seems to be an assumption that reducing box count aka downsizing = downgrading, some of the All in One boxes are really up there with the multi box systems. I still love Naim classic gear but did move from a lot of their boxes to a 2 box and then down to a single box system without feeling it was a downgrade.

I’ve been up and down the multi box system, driven by ill health and not wanting the Mrs to put that forum post online about selling the gear and how much and what the hell is it. Now things are brighter I have a lot of boxes again because swapping kit in and out, trying lots of gear and building different combinations is what I really enjoy. I guess I listen to at least 3 albums a day, weekends an awful lot more so the music matters too, lockdown has given me time to fill in the gaps in my LP collection, bought more records in a year than the previous 10, postie must be fed up dropping cardboard mailers off pretty much daily.

When I was a kid at school I'd put £100 pretend systems together from the Comet flyer or ads in the back of mags, 40 years later I can buy pretty much any decent gear I want so have bought/sold a lot of the “heroes” from back then and have built up a very good modern system.

If having all that cash tied up makes you unhappy, feel selfish or overly guilty then it might be best to shift it, my experience of selling kit is that if you rush you’ll take a hammering on depreciation. Do what’s best for your circumstances.

I don’t have to worry about anyone else using my system but if you do want others to enjoy it the control App or Remote control is what makes a big difference, there are a few really friendly systems out there now that sound great, stuff like BlueSound, Yamaha or SONOS (which is better than it's credited as being) or ROON which ties all sorts of different makers gear together under 1 single interface. An older system can be simplified with a Logitech Harmony. This is just a hobby that should make you feel better at the end of a shitty day and let you relax with some quality tunes and a glass, if your system is preventing that from happening, look at a change. All imho, ymmv :)
 
Sorry if you've already mentioned this, but I'm curious to know what your system is?

My guess is analogue front end with SETs and horns.

Once you are a long way down that rabbit hole, most systems will sound strange (IMHO).
 
I once downgraded my all-Naim system (multiple PSU's, Fraim, blabla) to a Naim Classik. Ouch, that was really dumb. I went back up the ladder, but just not to that amount of boxes. Right now I 'only' use a SuperUniti and it should be enough. From time to time I still have the itch to upgrade. Should I add a Nap 250? Should I sell the SU and buy a Yamaha AS3000 (those VU meters are so cool)? But this is all just for the fun I guess. There's no need, the SU does everything I could ask for. The lesson: a Linn Classik didn't. I would suggest you'd give an alternative a try before you sell all your stuff. Maybe something like a SU. If you buy s/hand you can always sell it for about the same amount of money. I was pretty sad the first days when I had the Classik in place. However, I sold my Naims for good prices, so in the end this whole lesson wasn't to costly.
 


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