2021 & we still flush the loo with expensive potable water

[Mike Reed]

I've had a bee in my bonnet for decades about this and to the best of my knowledge, new houses are still being built with loos flushing with mains water. This is a waste, not only of money but resources (incl. purification processes).

For many years now I've been flushing the downstairs loo after a pee with either water used for rinsing after washing up etc. or from my water butts outside. Quite convenient with a watering can as the loo is off the utterly room. Upstairs loo is a different matter.

Am I a bit naive to think that a grey water reservoir cannot be incorporated in existing and esp. new houses to service loos? Obv. the cisterns would need to be plumbed into the mains, but with a manual valve to switch water sources when grey water supply is inadequate. Reinforcement of existing flat roofs or walls would be a requirement for weight considerations, I guess.

There are quite a few knowledgeable/skilled artisans on pfm, and I would welcome comments as to feasibility, whether through cost, viability, desirability or otherwise. To me, this is a different but equally green and glaring anomaly.

 

[Vinny]

Grey water storage would be a nightmare unless there was some kind of disinfection involved. That ignores problems from dispersed fats and the like.

Collection of rainwater (from roofs) and using that would definitely be easier on numerous counts.

 

[Bob McC]

I've had a bee in my bonnet for decades about this and to the best of my knowledge, new houses are still being built with loos flushing with mains water. This is a waste, not only of money but resources (incl. purification processes).

For many years now I've been flushing the downstairs loo after a pee with either water used for rinsing after washing up etc. or from my water butts outside. Quite convenient with a watering can as the loo is off the utterly room. Upstairs loo is a different matter.

Am I a bit naive to think that a grey water reservoir cannot be incorporated in existing and esp. new houses to service loos? Obv. the cisterns would need to be plumbed into the mains, but with a manual valve to switch water sources when grey water supply is inadequate. Reinforcement of existing flat roofs or walls would be a requirement for weight considerations, I guess.

There are quite a few knowledgeable/skilled artisans on pfm, and I would welcome comments as to feasibility, whether through cost, viability, desirability or otherwise. To me, this is a different but equally green and glaring anomaly.

You waste water rinsing after washing up?

 

[Nigel]

"Quite convenient with a watering can as the loo is off the utterly room. Upstairs loo is a different matter."

Where is the utterly room?

 

[Marchbanks]

For many years now I've been flushing the downstairs loo after a pee with either water used for rinsing after washing up etc. or from my water butts outside. Quite convenient with a watering can as the loo is off the utterly room. Upstairs loo is a different matter.

What is an utterly room and why haven’t I got at least two? ‘Oh yes, last year we decided to build a new utterly room in the East Wing to show off our new works of art to their best advantage. Utterly delighful, what?’

 

[JensenHealey]

I seem to remember in Japan (?) it is/was common for the hand-washing sink in a bathroom to be on top of the loo cistern. So the water from hand-washing went into the cistern for the flushing. Pretty neat idea.

 

[Copperjacket]

It’s what 30 years since the water supply was privatised and yet there has been apparently very little real progress with the reduction of mains leakage. Surely it would make sense to deal with such a fundamental issue?

 

[hifinutt]

my dad was obsessed with this matter , he wrote to many people including enoch powell and many other famous members of parliament . he was paying for drainage of water even though he had a private cistern in the garden. so all water from baths were diverted by pipes to run out at bottom of garden . no one could flush the toilet to save money until it was pretty full . he spent many years on this campaign !! wish i had kept some of the many letters !!

 

[Andrew C!]

My friends in Bermuda do this, and have done so for years and years. Rain gets routed into a tank under the house.

 

[Seeker_UK]

The bonus is that if you collect the run-off, you pay less water rates.

 

[sean99]

According to my water bill the cost of wastewater treatment far outweighs the cost of the supply so constructing an entirely parallel delivery system for non potable water and then making sure nobody accidentally plumbs it to sinks or baths may be more trouble than it’s worth.

 

[Mike Reed]

Collection of rainwater (from roofs) and using that would definitely be easier on numerous counts.

That's the grey water I had in mind, Vinny.

You waste water rinsing after washing up?

Nope; I never wash up and my wife always rinses as I believe they do in the east (and as did I when I was a bachelor). Why was crockery etc. and still have dirty residue?

Where is the utterly room?

Utility; utterly freezing in winter. Utterly filthy in summer.

I seem to remember in Japan (?) it is/was common for the hand-washing sink in a bathroom to be on top of the loo cistern. So the water from hand-washing went into the cistern for the flushing. Pretty neat idea.

Agreed, though it's a basin in the bathroom, sink in the kitchen (here, at least !)

my dad was obsessed with this matter , he wrote to many people including enoch powell and many other famous members of parliament . he was paying for drainage of water even though he had a private cistern in the garden. so all water from baths were diverted by pipes to run out at bottom of garden . no one could flush the toilet to save money until it was pretty full . he spent many years on this campaign !! wish i had kept some of the many letters !!

Brilliant! If you have soak-aways (i.e., rainwater doesn't directly enter the drainage system), a discount can be had from the sewage cost (which is always more than the water cost). My respect for your enterprising and vociferous dad.

The bonus is that if you collect the run-off, you pay less water rates.

See previous comment.

According to my water bill the cost of wastewater treatment far outweighs the cost of the supply so constructing an entirely parallel delivery system for non potable water and then making sure nobody accidentally plumbs it to sinks or baths may be more trouble than it’s worth.

It would lower sewerage costs unless all your rainwater was collected (=soak-away) and even then, sewerage costs are based upon potable water usage. Contamination unlikely as the valve system would only affect loos and not other mains water outlets.

 

[Jamie]

According to my water bill the cost of wastewater treatment far outweighs the cost of the supply so constructing an entirely parallel delivery system for non potable water and then making sure nobody accidentally plumbs it to sinks or baths may be more trouble than it’s worth.

Depends how you look at it. My brother installed his own DIY system to take rainwater (through a diy filtering system) and (solar powered) pump it to a separate header tank (level controlled) in the loft for the loo (he is retired, so likes his little projects). So for each flush of the loo, he avoids cost X by not using usual supply of water, but also avoids cost (multiple of) X, as water companies calculate the waste water you use as a multiple of the water supplied. So, it's a win-win (trick is not to tell your water company, or they may adjust your waste water cost/ratio).

 

[stevec67]

I seem to remember in Japan (?) it is/was common for the hand-washing sink in a bathroom to be on top of the loo cistern. So the water from hand-washing went into the cistern for the flushing. Pretty neat idea.

A mate of mine when I was a kid had a similar arrangement in the downstairs loo in the outhouse we all used. There wasn't originally a sink so when it was installed the sink drain was taken down the wall and over the side of the pot. It was where we washed our hands after messing around with cars so the water was often fairly rank, but it kept the loo fresh.

 

[Mike Reed]

Depends how you look at it. My brother installed his own DIY system to take rainwater (through a diy filtering system) and (solar powered) pump it to a separate header tank (level controlled) in the loft for the loo (he is retired, so likes his little projects). So for each flush of the loo, he avoids cost X by not using usual supply of water, but also avoids cost (multiple of) X, as water companies calculate the waste water you use as a multiple of the water supplied. So, it's a win-win (trick is not to tell your water company, or they may adjust your waste water cost/ratio).

Wow! That's taking it to a new level (first floor?) He would still need a two-way valve on his loo, though, as rain is not predictable. You are right, inasmuch as cost-wise, it's a win-win situation. Sewage costs are directly affected by mains water usage. As cold water tanks and expansion tanks are in the loft normally, it makes sense to site a reservoir there. Enables a good head of water for upstairs (+ other) loo flushes too. Don't think the water company would be interested, b.t.w.

 

[stevec67]

You waste water rinsing after washing up?

It's not wasted. Rinsing off wash water containing detergents after washing up is a legal requirement in the food industry. If you choose not to, that's up to you. To be fair I generally don't at home, but we all ought to.

 

[Jamie]

Wow! That's taking it to a new level (first floor?) He would still need a two-way valve on his loo, though, as rain is not predictable. You are right, inasmuch as cost-wise, it's a win-win situation. Sewage costs are directly affected by mains water usage. As cold water tanks and expansion tanks are in the loft normally, it makes sense to site a reservoir there. Enables a good head of water for upstairs (+ other) loo flushes too. Don't think the water company would be interested, b.t.w.

It's a bungalow. He has a few water butts, and there are only 2 of them and one loo so I don't think supply is a problem. Worst case is a hosepipe to fill one up if they get too low?

 

[Mike Reed]

It's a bungalow.

That's cheating. I was so impressed, too !

 

[Guinnless]

I flush the loo once a week whether needed or not.

 

[Paul L]

It’s what 30 years since the water supply was privatised and yet there has been apparently very little real progress with the reduction of mains leakage. Surely it would make sense to deal with such a fundamental issue?

Isnt that because the ‘benefits’ competition would bring was different to the reality of corporates chasing a profit and minimising investment in repairs and expanding the supply. I don’t know if it’s true but I remember hearing that in this period where the population has doubled no or very few no reservoirs have been built.

Of course, we all have to minimise our usage regardless and as a start point I bet most of the public don’t know what their M3 consumption is.