Post-Trump: Biden President Elect II (Trump tantrums, riots etc)

[Ciunas Audio]

There's a very good article addressing exactly these points on Politico.com dated 4th Feb, for those who can access it:

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...ristian-extremism-nationalism-violence-466034

Having read this, I disagree with her premise - that the bible just has to be understood & it's truth pointed out to these people in order to change them.
This is crap - trying to use a book of myths & stories to change beliefs that have been built up over decades in order to excuse white Christian superiority & capitalism's worst excesses, is fundamentally flawed & doomed to failure.
This is a person who is still fooled into thinking that there is some way to 'save' people with 'truth' (her interpretation of the many versions). It may have been possible 40-50 years ago but not now

 

[martin clark]

I agree with your point, but thought it an interesting insight into .. the whole mire.

 

[Yank]

Having read this, I disagree with her premise - that the bible just has to be understood & it's truth pointed out to these people in order to change them.
This is crap - trying to use a book of myths & stories to change beliefs that have been built up over decades in order to excuse white Christian superiority & capitalism's worst excesses, is fundamentally flawed & doomed to failure.
This is a person who is still fooled into thinking that there is some way to 'save' people with 'truth' (her interpretation of the many versions). It may have been possible 40-50 years ago but not now

I agree with your point, but thought it an interesting insight into .. the whole mire.

I see it as a generational problem, to be dealt with by attrition. Rural America is undergoing a continuing de-population, people are still moving to urban areas in droves. Their children will be exposed to different world views.

 

[-alan-]

That makes sense. We've experienced exactly that in Ireland here - the power of the Church and organised religion having been reduced dramatically over the last decade. The bigger unknown in the case of the US (and elsewhere) though is whether/how much new 'religions' like QAnon and entities of that ilk will shape the thinking of the next generations.

 

[DonQuixote99]

I read that former cult members stay vulnerable and paranoid. We've got a long term problem on our hands.

 

[Hook]

I read that former cult members stay vulnerable and paranoid. We've got a long term problem on our hands.

Doesn't help that many of those cult members held high government positions in the very recent past.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pete...eep-state-coup-fox_n_60208ed5c5b689330e306e53

 

[Joe Hutch]

Interesting article from the Graun about poor old Mike Pence:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...donald-trump-republicans-religion-evangelical

Trump knew Pence intended to perform his constitutionally prescribed duty to preside over the process that would seal Joe Biden’s election. Pence had repeatedly told Trump that was what he would do. Trump had tried every means to dislodge him from his position, but Pence proved immovable. Trump’s call that morning, threatening him as a “pussy”, was the last desperate gambit. Trump knew the string was played out.

But when he addressed the crowd he had assembled, Trump pretended he did not know what Pence was going to do. Stung by Pence’s emphatic refusal, he knew he was retailing a false narrative. He feigned that Pence had not yet made up his mind – and that the entire decision now depended upon him. Trump built up the dramatic suspense, stoked the crowd’s anger and directed its fixation. Trump turned the entire crisis on to Pence.

[...]

But many of those assaulting the Capitol had already received Trump’s tinfoil cue to focus on Pence. The FBI charging paper for one arrested rioter, an alleged QAnon militant, quoted a text message two weeks before the attack: “I’m there for the greatest celebration of all time after Pence leads the Senate flip!! OR IM THERE IF TRUMP TELLS US TO STORM THE FUKIN CAPITAL IMA DO THAT THEN! We don’t want any trouble but they are not going to steal this election that I guarantee bro!!”

Secret service agents hustled Pence out of the chamber. “Where’s Mike Pence?” chanted the mob, racing to locate him. They carried a noose, marked with his name. Pence was in an office only about 100ft away. A quick-thinking Capitol police officer steered the rampaging throng to chase him in the opposite direction. At 2.24pm, amid the mayhem, Trump tweeted: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”'

 

[sean99]

Pence sold his soul to the devil for the chance to ram his religious bigotry down our throats. I have no sympathy.

 

[Joe Hutch]

Pence sold his soul to the devil for the chance to ram his religious bigotry down our throats. I have no sympathy.

Well, no, me neither, but Pence's fate is a clear illustration of just how complicit Trump was in the Capitol riot. It's also a textbook illustration of what happens to people who trust Trump.

 

[Hook]

Well, no, me neither, but Pence's fate is a clear illustration of just how complicit Trump was in the Capitol riot. It's also a textbook illustration of what happens to people who trust Trump.

Pence sold his soul to the devil for the chance to ram his religious bigotry down our throats. I have no sympathy.

No sympathy from me either, and Joe is of course correct.

I would happily forgive Pence on the condition that he testifies at the impeachment trial, and that testimony leads to conviction.

Ok, admittedly my fingers would be crossed behind my back when I “forgive”, but wouldn’t it be fun to see that “pussy” turn into a “bitey”?

 

[-alan-]

Pence sold his soul to the devil for the chance to ram his religious bigotry down our throats. I have no sympathy.

On the other hand - at least he had the wit and decency not to do his Trumpness' bidding and try to overturn the election result. It could be a vastly different US of A we could be looking at today had he not stood his ground.

 

[wacko]

Are we saying Pussy Pence saved the USA from their second civil war ?

 

[sean99]

No sympathy from me either, and Joe is of course correct.

I would happily forgive Pence on the condition that he testifies at the impeachment trial, and that testimony leads to conviction.

Ok, admittedly my fingers would be crossed behind my back when I “forgive”, but wouldn’t it be fun to see that “pussy” turn into a “bitey”?

On the other hand - at least he had the wit and decency not to do his Trumpness' bidding and try to overturn the election result. It could be a vastly different US of A we could be looking at today had he not stood his ground.

I think Pence probably made the same mistake as the rest of the GOP who thought they could ride on Trump's coattails, helping to deliver their awful agenda, and that Trump would either be not so extreme, or could be persuaded to toe the party line. They maybe didn't realize just how extreme Trump would turn out to be, nor the degree to which he manages to destroy everyone who attempts to work with him.

Haha - tough sh*t. I hope Trump destroys the GOP.

 

[Ciunas Audio]

Well, no, me neither, but Pence's fate is a clear illustration of just how complicit Trump was in the Capitol riot. It's also a textbook illustration of what happens to people who trust Trump.

It appears that people also understood that Trump was going to give a speech on the steps of the Capitol building - this was a ruse but meant to get people to go there (he also said it in his speech).
Another tactic to get them there was to use Alex Jones (Stone was asked but refused) to lead the march to the Capitol building.

If the crowd didn't think there was a continuation happening at Capitol building would they have gone there en-masse & provided cover for the Proud Boys, Otah keepers & any other terrorists? or would the just have dispersed?

Were the police officially told (& gave permission) that Trump was going to speak on the steps & hence were betwixt & between?

All of this was co-ordinated by the WH

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/trump-told-stop-the-steal-organizers

Some people should have been subpoenaed to give testimony at this impeachment but it's too late now - is it another **** up by the Dems?

 

[DonQuixote99]

Are we saying Pussy Pence saved the USA from their second civil war ?

That's putting it too strongly. Civil war is just one possible bad thing that could have happened if Pence had acted to prevent electoral certification. And besides, it might still happen. But he saved us from a cluster of rotten possibilities at that moment. He did one right thing, and it mattered.

 

[Tony L]

Georgia Secretary Of State opens investigation into Trump’s attempts to overturn the election (Reuters). Good. More please.

 

[Tony L]

Newsnight tonight is very good on the 6th Jan attack on the Capital. Some new footage and information. The gist being this likely isn’t the end pount, more likely the start of a growing fascist insurgency in America.

 

[Joe P]

Four years of sycophantic arse kissing and Mike was almost brought to the gallows by a mob of Trump-drunk insurrectionists.

You’d think the GOP might glean some wisdom from this teachable moment.

Joe

 

[Hook]

Four years of sycophantic arse kissing and Mike was almost brought to the gallows by a mob of Trump-drunk insurrectionists.

You’d think the GOP might glean some wisdom from this teachable moment.

Joe

I think the GOP is thinking more like this little boy.

 

[ks.234]

Newsnight tonight is very good on the 6th Jan attack on the Capital. Some new footage and information. The gist being this likely isn’t the end pount, more likely the start of a growing fascist insurgency in America.

Missed that, thanks for highlighting. Lots of excellent new info in there.

It obviously suits Trump, as it's suited the ruling elite throughout history, to characterise insurrections as the actions of a few lower class individuals with madness and unlawful violence on their minds.

It wasn't true of the Peasant's Revolt over half a millennia ago, the rise to power of the Nazis a century ago, and it's not true with Trump now. Insurrections are planned, led and organised by the educated middle classes leading and organising against the elite, or in the cases of Hitler and Trump, by the elite and the middle classes organising, leading and mobilising the lower classes

First of all the insurrection was planned. The clip of ‘Milkshake’ shouting out “let’s take the Capitol” and Briggs and Nordean showing their anger at his stupidity for revealing the plan even before Trump had spoken is strong evidence of that.

Second, Researchers at the University of Chicago say that 40% of the insurrectionists were “...CEOs and white collar workers, doctors, accountants, lawyers...” not the lower class and the disenfranchised, a clear indicator of the professionalisation of the planning.

Finally, the evidence that Trump was at the very least aware of the planning is in his choice of words to the Proud Boys to 'stand by' and his urging of the crowd to take action just prior to the storming of the Capitol.

We have careful planning, we have organisation, and we have leadership from the very top.

Trump will get away with it of course, but I do hope that at the very least the upcoming trial will highlight the undoubted fact that the steps that Trump has taken to try to overthrow elected power now, have loud echos from the rise to power of the Nazi Party in the past, and that such highlighting at least diminishes the power of populism