The end of the UK(?)
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Ciunas Audio
Trade: Ciunas Audio
Indeed, there's no reason why not but as I said I don't think the sentiment in the south would be to unify Ireland, currently - nothing to prevent that in the future, though.
lagavullin10y
pfm Member
How come they speak English? Because you’ve sent them a book?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
That behaviour was repeated toward the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - with the first Westminster proposal to place a border between north and south ( with all sorts of imaginary technological mitigations to appease Europe, the Republic and half the North’s population). When the Tory government were advised that was not acceptable, they turned on the loyal DUP caucus in Parliament and despite prior reassurances, unilaterally placed a border between them and the rest of Britain.Given that I live in Scotland *and* at the time of the last IndyRef I came down on the 'No' side I recall *very* clearly what led me to that decision. And what I wrote does NOT "mis-remember" the key point that we were repeatedly and explcitly told that a Scots Independence would mean we woule be ejected AND that Spain and other EU countries would veto Scotland then asking to join. The reason being their resistance to their own geo-cultural areas that seek to do something similar. Existing EU members *can* 'block' someone joining.
We were also told that staying in the UK was our only way to stay in the EU.
Frankly, from talking to people, and in my own view, accepting the Euro to get in or stay in would have been accepted. The key point was that we simply would be refused membership. This was plugged repeatedly. So, no, I'm not 'mis-remembering'.
I'd say that a big factor in the rise in a wish for Independence is precisely the way we were sold that line... only to then be told we being taken out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish votes on the issue.
BTW No-one asked the actual people of Scotland if they agree that they *had* to accept the Brexit vote on a UK basis over-ruling the preference of people in Scotland.
So the Tories peddling that line are perhaps being economic with the verity.Again, a point I suspect many here have taken to heart.
And note I am NOT a keen fan of Scottish Independence. But I experience how others have reacted, and I am reluctantly inclined to agree.
I’m afraid that’s why anything Johnson promises now would be automatically disregarded by voters in Scotland and in fact any time he even opens his mouth about “the Union” it drives up the independence vote in Scotland.
Oh bitter and twisted and ill-informed.
I currently work with Polish, Estonians, Latvians, South Africans, Spanish, French, Iraquis, Sri Lankans, Turks, Scots, Singaporean, Irish and even Welsh and probably quite a few others whose nationality has nothing whatsoever to do with empire. I look foward to working with a Hong-Kong Chinese though.
You have not a clue what you are talking about.
Read this - get educated - Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
Most "immigration" into the UK has happened as a result of people looking for a better life. Sadly they often found that at a price, hopefully far better now than previously.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
We should look on it not just as an ending but a new beginning. Old friends will remain old friends. A bright European future awaits us all.
tones
Tones deaf
Unfortunately, what you say is true - nobody wants the North. Partition was a desperate ploy (two parliaments that would one day be combined) that failed dismally, with one lot disappearing into a bitter civil war that killed more people than the British did, and the other lot seeking to make one-third of the population second-class citizens. (There are parallels between Northern behaviour and the southern states of the USA - Ian Paisley's "doctorate" comes from Bob Jones University, and Jones was a notorious segregationalist). The South has moved into the 21st century, the North has remained stuck in the Stone Age, with the tendency to head back to the Jurassic.
For a long time, Westminster operated on the basic principle "ignore it, and maybe it'll go away", which meant that the rampant discrimination continued unabated (the Conservatives were quite happy to accept Unionists as allies). When the Troubles blew up and a UK Minister for Northern Ireland finally visited the place, he was heard to say on the plane coming back, "Give me a large Scotch, God, what a bloody awful country!"
On the other side, my first German lessons in Switzerland were taken with the group who would operate the then new Sandoz (now Novartis) plant at Ringaskiddy. What did they think of the North? To a (wo)man, they would have liked it to be towed into the Atlantic and sunk, so that they'd never have to hear about it ever again. One of the girls had a brother who was a captain in the Irish Army, and she was petrified at the thought of him having to patrol the streets of Belfast.
Another poster has said that the differences between East and West Germany were greater at unification. I'm not so sure; Germany didn't have the rampant tribalism that still afflicts the North. The person who deals with that one deserves an entire shelf-full of Nobel Peace Prizes.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
Overreacting by swinging to the other extreme should be a surprise, but isn't.
My point was that Ireland would face a similar influx of ideology.
I do not think that it is that simple. My hunch is that it is ultra nationalism under both recent regimes, and the prior one that they shared, not simple left-right politics.
I don't think that it would be that simple either. For a start, somewhere around 50% of N Irish are Catholic, and many would be pro reunification (plus some protestants). (Apologies I do not know the current religious proportions in N Ireland, but it isn't far off 50:50)
Ciunas Audio
Trade: Ciunas Audio
Agree with all you said & my thoughts are that anytime religion comes into the equation, it amplifies any differences towards fanaticism & becomes fossilised. Far more difficult to change, as we see in the US, logic doesn't come into the equation - hopefully such fanaticism is diluted over generations but it does depend on a lot of other factors whether this dilution happens.
tones
Tones deaf
I suspect you're right - even the 2011 census has Catholics at 40.8% and non-Catholic Christianity at 41.6%, with the rest other religions and no religion. In the 10 years that have passed, the Catholic population must have overhauled the non-Catholic. Of course, many Catholics like things in the North, such as the National Health Service, and that sort of bread and butter issue might prevail over the emotional pull of reunification. It is also worth mentioning that, as Ciúnas says, down South, Northern Catholics are often regarded as a strange, alien species, not fellow countrymen. I remember well an Irish Times editorial at the time of the Drumcree marches that was titled "A plague on both Northern houses" and said, in essence, that we have enough problems down here, without two sets of right eejits who only want to fight each other.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
The former E. Germans aren't ALL fascists either...
It doesn't take a large percentage of fanatics to cause problems.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
Oh, indeed I did.
Have you any idea what a facist is?
Ultra nationalism does not mean anything like facist.
So far as problems and fanatics go, one is enough if in the right/wrong place.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Yes, there is indeed, but that’s not how the government has sold it, is it? They went large on the ‘beholden to no man’ rhetoric, while simultaneously cosying up to the US in a deal which, in its implications for foreign influence could make the CJEU’s output look a bit quaint.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
What? This responds to my point exactly how?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It exploits the opportunity for a UKIP leaflet drop, never engagement. Plop and move on.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
We need basic rules of a free trade organisation that has low overheads.
We do not need an organisation that takes red bus loads of cash every week, that we do not control, and is heading for federal control.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
And again, this doesn’t even engage with my point, let alone respond to it. We can’t have a sensible discussion if all you do is fly tip UKIP propaganda in response to any argument. It’s why people accuse you of being a bot.