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The end of the UK(?)

I haven't read all of this thread but as a citizen of southern Ireland, I have to say that I can understand US politics better than I can understand politics regarding NI. It may be a fault of mine or that the US is glaringly obvious & transparent & NI/UK politics is obtuse & dense?

IMO, the UK has always wanted to find a reason to get rid of NI - it has only cost them both politically & financially

The south is similarly schizophrenic about NI - it is a different country both culturally & financially to the south . Apart from ideological & geographical reasons why would we want to become a united Ireland, especially overnight?

So, sorry to say, NI is somewhat of a poor cousin that nobody wants to know

Hope this doesn't upset NI posters here - it's just my view but I'm willing to change

If there was a vote here tomorrow to unite Ireland I would think it would be a close call - perhaps this is surprising to some who would imagine that history & ideology would favour a united Ireland vote from the people in the south?

Maybe, I'm wrong & I just don't have people in my social group who are fervent nationalists?
 
It’s guilt transference. Having spent years building up hatred and contempt for our European neighbours, much of is based on lies and distortion, the English then blame those neighbours for treating us with hating and contempt based on little more than a need to deflect from the problems our own attitudes and actions have caused.

It’s a habit we’ve gotten into now, so we’ve decided to dispense with the preliminaries and start real early and deflect blame onto all things Scottish right now

That's right, anyone picking up a flavour of the UK should really appreciate how cosmopolitan and tolerant we are.... "3M UK Workers Are Now Foreign" she screeched. How awful. I reckon they do all this because there is no audience for it, we're not like that really - yeah right. Won't be long before this is aimed at the Scots, "who do they think they are, ungrateful bastards." etc.

"The men that people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth."

H. L. Mencken


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I assume 'she' is the Home Secretary?

The Sun has a circulation of around 1 million. It and the DM have a monthly readership of just under 30 million each, with the Guardian/Observer just behind at 25 million. That's impressive reach for a pro-EU, left-biased paper. The DM has increased its readership since it has taken a more pro-EU stance under the new editorship.

Beneath the garish headlines lies some serious concern expressed by people about their lives and their communities. The cosmopolitan lib-left of the kind who can drop 20 or 30 grand of expendable on a hi-fi system, another 50 or 60 on a sportscar, who are feeling pretty smug about the fact they've paid off their mortgages, and who almost certainly don't live in those communities, should perhaps have spent a little less time sneering, and a little more listening.

Despite all of that, the UK is widely recognised as being one of the most racially relaxed countries in Europe, and as a decent place to live. That is undoubtedly the reason why people from all corners want to come here to live.


20 Years of Fake EU Headlines - The British Press has much to blame for ANTI-EU sentiments.

  • EC regulations to ban playgrounds – Daily Express
  • Rolling acres outlawed by Brussels – The Telegraph
  • EU to scrap British exams – Sunday Express
  • Obscure EU law halting the sale of English oak seeds – Mail on Sunday
  • EU may try to ban sweet and toy ads – The Times
  • EU to tell British farmers what they can grow – Daily Mail
  • EU ‘Bans Boozing’ – Daily Star
  • Light ale to be forced to change its name by Eurocrats – Daily Mail
  • EU fanatics to be forced to sing dire anthem about EU ‘Motherland’ – The Sun
  • British apple trees facing chop by EU – The Times
  • EC plan to ban noisy toys – Sunday People
  • EU to ban bagpipes and trapeze artists – The Sun
  • Children to be banned from blowing up balloons, under EU safety rules – Daily Telegraph
  • Straight cucumbers – The Sun
  • Curved bananas banned by Brussels bureaucrats – The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express
  • Brussels bans barmaids from showing cleavage – The Sun, Daily Telegraph
  • Rumpole’s wig to scrapped by EU – Mail on Sunday
  • Church bells silenced by fear of EU law – Daily Telegraph
  • Motorists to be charged to drive in city centres under EU plans – Daily Telegraph
  • EU to stop binge drinking by slapping extra tax on our booze – The Sun
  • Brandy butter to be renamed ‘brandy spreadable fat’ – The European
  • British loaf of bread under threat from EU – Daily Mail
  • Truckers face EU ban on fry-ups – The Sun
  • EU to ban Union Flag from British meat packs – Daily Express
  • EU seeks to outlaw 60 dog breeds – Europa News Agency
  • Double-decker buses to be banned – Daily Telegraph
  • EU bans eating competition cakes – Timesonline
  • Now EU officials want control of your CANDLES – Daily Express
  • 21-gun salutes are just too loud, Brussels tells the Royal Artillery – Mail on Sunday
  • Brussels threatens charity shops and car boot sales – Daily Mail
  • Plot to axe British number plates for standardised EU design – Daily Express
  • Women to be asked intimate details about sex lives in planned EU census – Daily Express
  • British cheese faces extinction under EU rules – PA News
  • EU meddlers ban kids on milk rounds – The Sun, The Telegraph
  • British chocolate to be renamed ‘vegelate’ under EU rules – Daily Mail
  • EU to ban church bells – Daily Telegraph
  • British film producers warn of new EU threat to industry – The Independent
  • Kilts to be branded womenswear by EU – Daily Record
  • EU to ban double decker buses – Daily Mail
  • Cod to be renamed ‘Gadus’ thanks to EU – Daily Mail
  • Brussels to restrict drinking habits of Britain’s coffee lovers – Daily Express
  • EU responsible for your hay fever – Daily Mail, The Times
  • Condom dimensions to be harmonised – Independent on Sunday
  • EU wants to BAN your photos of the London Eye – Daily Express
  • Corgis to be banned by EU – Daily Mail
  • EU forcing cows to wear nappies – Daily Mail
  • Eurocrats to ban crayons and colouring pencils – The Sun
  • Smoky bacon crisps face EU ban – Sunday Times
  • EU outlaws teeth whitening products – Daily Mail
  • Domain names – ‘.uk’ to be replaced by ‘.eu’ – Daily Mail
  • Brussels to ban HGV drivers from wearing glasses – The Times
  • New eggs cannot be called eggs – Daily Mail
  • EU to ban selling eggs by the dozen – Daily Mail
  • UK to be forced to adopt continental two pin plug – Daily Star, Daily Mail
  • EU targets traditional Sunday roast – Sun on Sunday
  • English Channel to be re-named ‘Anglo-French Pond’ – Daily Mail
  • Brussels to force EU flag on England shirts – Daily Mail
  • EU orders farmers to give toys to pigs – The Times
  • Firemen’s poles outlawed by EU – Daily Mail
  • Euro ban on food waste means swans cannot be fed – The Observer
  • Noise regulations to force football goers to wear earplugs – The Sun
  • Traditional Irish funeral under threat from EU – Daily Telegraph, The Times
  • EU to ban high-heel shoes for hairdressers – Daily Express
  • Commission to force fishermen to wear hairnets – Daily Telegraph
  • Brussels to ban herbal cures – Daily Express
  • Bureaucrats declare Britain is “not an island”– the Guardian
  • EU bid to ban life sentences for murderers – Daily Express
  • New EU map makes Kent part of France – Sunday Telegraph
  • EU tells Welsh how to grow their leeks – The Times
  • EU to ban lollipop ladies’ sticks – News of the World
  • EU plot to rename Trafalgar Square & Waterloo station – Daily Express
  • UK milk ‘pinta’ threatened by Brussels – The Sun
  • EU bans ‘mince’ pies – Daily Mail
  • Eurocrats say Santa must be a woman – The Sun
  • Now EU crackpots demand gypsy MPs – Daily Express
  • Brussels to outlaw mushy peas – The Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times
  • Brussels says shellfish must be given rest breaks on journeys – The Times
  • Pets must be pressure cooked after death – Sunday Telegraph
  • EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts – Daily Express
  • 2-for-1 bargains to be scrapped by EU – Daily Mirror
  • EU madness: chat up bar girl and pub will be fined – Daily Star
  • Queen to be forced to get her own tea by EU – The Sun
  • EU tells women to hand in worn-out sex toys – The Sun
  • British rhubarb to be straight – The Sun
  • EU to ban rocking horses – The Sun
  • Scotch whisky rebranded a dangerous chemical by EU – Daily Telegraph
  • Brussels ban on pints of shandy – The Times
  • “High up” signs to be put on mountains – BBC
  • Euronotes cause impotence – Daily Mail
  • EU to ban under 16-year-olds from using Facebook – Daily Mail
  • Strawberries must be oval – The Sun
  • EU orders swings to be pulled down – Daily Express
  • Tea bags banned from being recycled – BBC
  • British lav to be replaced with Euro-loo – The Sun
  • Unwanted Valentine’s cards to be defined as sexual harrasment – Daily Telegraph
  • Bosses to be told what colour carpets to buy by EU – Daily Star
  • EU says British yoghurt to be renamed ‘Fermented Milk Pudding’ – Sunday Mirror
  • EU to ban zipper trousers – The Sun


They do that because it doesn't have any effect on what people think. Nobody is taken in.



Great effort, and much gnashing of teeth, but once again - and entirely predictably - conflating 'our European neighbours' (see OP above) with the EU.

I don't often disagree with you Steve, but on this I must. I really think that 40 odd years of these head lines had a great deal to do with Brexit. Ok possibly only with the simple minded but it would appear the they were in the majority.

A bit more sneering?

There's an ugly form of snobbery at play when hardline remainers peer down from their lofty, 'educated' heights upon what they perceive as the Brexit demographic.
 
I assume 'she' is the Home Secretary?

The Sun has a circulation of around 1 million. It and the DM have a monthly readership of just under 30 million each, with the Guardian/Observer just behind at 25 million. That's impressive reach for a pro-EU, left-biased paper. The DM has increased its readership since it has taken a more pro-EU stance under the new editorship.

Beneath the garish headlines lies some serious concern expressed by people about their lives and their communities. The cosmopolitan lib-left of the kind who can drop 20 or 30 grand of expendable on a hi-fi system, another 50 or 60 on a sportscar, who are feeling pretty smug about the fact they've paid off their mortgages, and who almost certainly don't live in those communities, should perhaps have spent a little less time sneering, and a little more listening.

Despite all of that, the UK is widely recognised as being one of the most racially relaxed countries in Europe, and as a decent place to live. That is undoubtedly the reason why people from all corners want to come here to live.










Great effort, and much gnashing of teeth, but once again - and entirely predictably - conflating 'our European neighbours' (see OP above) with the EU.



A bit more sneering?

There's an ugly form of snobbery at play when hardline remainers peer down from their lofty, 'educated' heights upon what they perceive as the Brexit demographic.
I find it amusing when you do that thing of affecting empathy for the downtrodden ‘Brexit demographic’, the Greek pensioner or the poor African farmer while telling us your countrymen are positively recumbent when it comes to relaxation levels about race. It’s your Petit Trianon and it ain’t fooling anyone.
 
Well, quite. But not very many weeks ago, acceding to others' rules was 'vassalage'. We've taken back control. Had you forgotten?
The EU has moved away from a low cost trading organisation of mutual benefit and is trending towards an ever increasing red bus load of cash a week federal dictatorship with own money and own army.
 
I find it amusing when you do that thing of affecting empathy for the downtrodden ‘Brexit demographic’, the Greek pensioner or the poor African farmer while telling us your countrymen are positively recumbent when it comes to relaxation levels about race. It’s your Petit Trianon and it ain’t fooling anyone.

Likewise when you ostentatiously signal your virtue in the direction of the 'poor, hungry refugee', the more so given your obvious disdain for Greek pensioners (and teenagers), African farmers (and fishermen), and pretty much anyone else that the EU has trampled all over.
 
I find it amusing when you do that thing of affecting empathy for the downtrodden ‘Brexit demographic’, the Greek pensioner or the poor African farmer while telling us your countrymen are positively recumbent when it comes to relaxation levels about race. It’s your Petit Trianon and it ain’t fooling anyone.

I like the 'your countrymen' quip too, presumably with a view to further expound the myth that racism is somehow confined to England, and doesn't exist in Scotland.

I'm afraid that 'your countrymen' are no better than anyone else's countrymen on that count, and quite possibly worse.
 
Surely the next indy referendum should be English independence from the Union?

Then, the Scots/Welsh/N Irish would genuinely know how much love and appreciation there was for them down in the "motherland".
 
Well, quite. But not very many weeks ago, acceding to others' rules was 'vassalage'. We've taken back control. Had you forgotten?

There is a distinction between accepting the contraints that would be normal in a FTA and accepting the legal rulings of a politically activist court that serves the interests of a nascent empire.
 
Surely the next indy referendum should be English independence from the Union?

Then, the Scots/Welsh/N Irish would genuinely know how much love and appreciation there was for them down in the "motherland".
If only! Been saying this for a couple of years now. Unfortunately the time they could have done it without damaging the rest of us has long gone. I'd still be happy to see it though.
 
Imagine the newly independent Scottish MEPs being sent to Brussels.
They best sit well away from the Spanish representatives. Any pleasantries exchanged with the Catalans could be construed as aiding and abetting.
 
I haven't read all of this thread but as a citizen of southern Ireland, I have to say that I can understand US politics better than I can understand politics regarding NI. It may be a fault of mine or that the US is glaringly obvious & transparent & NI/UK politics is obtuse & dense?

IMO, the UK has always wanted to find a reason to get rid of NI - it has only cost them both politically & financially

The south is similarly schizophrenic about NI - it is a different country both culturally & financially to the south . Apart from ideological & geographical reasons why would we want to become a united Ireland, especially overnight?

So, sorry to say, NI is somewhat of a poor cousin that nobody wants to know

Hope this doesn't upset NI posters here - it's just my view but I'm willing to change

If there was a vote here tomorrow to unite Ireland I would think it would be a close call - perhaps this is surprising to some who would imagine that history & ideology would favour a united Ireland vote from the people in the south?

Maybe, I'm wrong & I just don't have people in my social group who are fervent nationalists?

Poor cousin indeed but we deserve fair treatment. Ireland is due some big changes north and south. Unification would be the perfect time to put to bed the political settlement and political institutions created at partition. There is no reason the 6 counties can't be as successful as the other 26 with the right governance.
 
That is a very considerable "mis-remembering".

If Scotland had left the union, there was no way anyone could out and out refuse them entry to the EU. What WAS pointed out was that to join the EU, Scotland would have to accept the Euro and it would not get the same deal as that which they had as part of the UK (it could only ever be less attractive).

Given that I live in Scotland *and* at the time of the last IndyRef I came down on the 'No' side I recall *very* clearly what led me to that decision. And what I wrote does NOT "mis-remember" the key point that we were repeatedly and explcitly told that a Scots Independence would mean we woule be ejected AND that Spain and other EU countries would veto Scotland then asking to join. The reason being their resistance to their own geo-cultural areas that seek to do something similar. Existing EU members *can* 'block' someone joining.

We were also told that staying in the UK was our only way to stay in the EU.

Frankly, from talking to people, and in my own view, accepting the Euro to get in or stay in would have been accepted. The key point was that we simply would be refused membership. This was plugged repeatedly. So, no, I'm not 'mis-remembering'.

I'd say that a big factor in the rise in a wish for Independence is precisely the way we were sold that line... only to then be told we being taken out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish votes on the issue.

BTW No-one asked the actual people of Scotland if they agree that they *had* to accept the Brexit vote on a UK basis over-ruling the preference of people in Scotland.
So the Tories peddling that line are perhaps being economic with the verity. :) Again, a point I suspect many here have taken to heart.

And note I am NOT a keen fan of Scottish Independence. But I experience how others have reacted, and I am reluctantly inclined to agree.
 
And what I wrote does NOT "mis-remember

Apologies if that was what you heard loud and clear north of the border, it certainly was not what was plugged south of it.

So, if that was the case then, it will be so at any future date. Which would make for a major PITA situation for an independent Scotland on numerous counts, not least currency and, with it, countless knock-on financial implications.
The whole scenario just smacks ever more of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You have not commented on my point about Scots forcing Labour government onto English voters in years past. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander and all that?
 
Despite all of that, the UK is widely recognised as being one of the most racially relaxed countries in Europe, and as a decent place to live. That is undoubtedly the reason why people from all corners want to come here to live.

Sorry, but the sole reason that so many people want to go to Britain is that you invaded their countries. Now they have a distant cousin in Britain and that's why they go there - and your language was imposed on them.

In France, you see the fellas from the French colonies.

Racially relaxed my !@#$%.
 
Sorry, but the sole reason that so many people want to go to Britain is that you invaded their countries. Now they have a distant cousin in Britain and that's why they go there - and your language was imposed on them.

I think that you will find that is a language thing alone - second language for how much of the world is English, nothing to do with the empire. And it is damned tricky to reach the US/Canada using only a tractor inner-tube for transport.
 


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